HANSARD

Session Day 18 20

Assembly

HANSARD

Wednesday, May 29, 2024

Pages 545 - 604

The Honourable Shane Thompson, Speaker

Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories

Members of the Legislative Assembly

Speaker

Hon. Shane Thompson

(Nahendeh)

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hon. Caitlin Cleveland

(Kam Lake)

Minister of Education, Culture and

Employment

Minister of Industry, Tourism and

Investment

Mr. Richard Edjericon

(Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh)

Mr. Robert Hawkins

(Yellowknife Centre)

Hon. Lucy Kuptana

(Nunakput)

Minister responsible for Housing

Northwest Territories

Minister responsible for the Status of

Women

Hon. Jay Macdonald

(Thebacha)

Minister of Environment and Climate

Change

Hon. Vince McKay

(Hay River South)

Minister of Municipal and Community

Affairs

Minister responsible for the Workers'

Safety and Compensation

Commission

Minister responsible for the Public

Utilities Board

Mr. Danny McNeely

(Sahtu)

Ms. Shauna Morgan

(Yellowknife North)

Mr. Julian Morse

(Frame Lake)

Mr. George Nerysoo

(Mackenzie Delta)

Ms. Kate Reid

(Great Slave)

Mr. Denny Rodgers

(Inuvik Boot Lake)

Hon. Lesa Semmler

(Inuvik Twin Lakes)

Minister of Health and Social Services

Hon. R.J. Simpson

(Hay River North)

Premier

Government House Leader

Minister of Executive and Indigenous

Affairs

Minister of Justice

Mr. Kieron Testart

(Range Lake)

Hon. Caroline Wawzonek

(Yellowknife South)

Deputy Premier

Minister of Finance

Minister of Infrastructure

Minister responsible for the NWT Power

Corporation

Mrs. Jane Weyallon

Armstrong

(Monfwi)

Mrs. Sheryl Yakeleya

(Dehcho)

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Officers

Clerk of the Legislative Assembly

Mr. Glen Rutland

Clerk of Journals

Mr. Michael Ball

Deputy Clerks

Ms. Kim Wickens

Ms. Jolene Saturnino

Committee Clerks

Ms. Cynthia James

Ms. Katie Weaver Charpentier

Law Clerks

Mr. Toby Kruger

Ms. Sandra Mackenzie

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Box 1320

Yellowknife, Northwest Territories

Tel: (867) 767-9010 Fax: (867) 920-4735 Toll-Free: 1-800-661-0784

www.ntassembly.ca

Published under the authority of the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories

TABLE&OF&CONTENTS&

PRAYER .................................................................................................................................................................... 545

MINISTERS’ STATEMENTS ................................................................................................................................ 545

MINISTER’S STATEMENT 36-20(1): NORTHWEST TERRITORIES AIRPORT IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS .................................. 545

MINISTER’S STATEMENT 38-20(1): NON-INSURED HEALTH BENEFITS AGREEMENT WITH CANADA .................................... 546

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS .................................................................................................................................. 547

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 201-20(1): MEDICAL TRAVEL FOR SENIOR CITIZENS .................................................................. 547

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 202-20(1): MEDICAL TRAVEL .................................................................................................. 547

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 203-20(1): ACCESSIBILITY ...................................................................................................... 548

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 204-20(1): ILLICIT DRUG TRADE .............................................................................................. 548

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 205-20(1): CLIMATE CHANGE .................................................................................................. 548

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 206-20(1): ILLICIT DRUG TRADE IMPACT AND PREVENTION MEASURES ....................................... 549

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 207-20(1): OFFICE OF THE CHILDREN’S LAWYER ...................................................................... 549

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 208-20(1): RECOGNITION OF CABINET’S COMMITMENT TO WORKING WITH INDIGENOUS GOVERNMENTS

................................................................................................................................................................................ 550

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 209-20(1): ACCESSIBILITY STANDARDS .................................................................................... 550

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 210-20(1): CONGRATULATIONS TO DEHCHO GRADUATES .......................................................... 551

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 211-20(1): NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS .................................................................... 551

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 212-20(1): RON COOK CELEBRATION OF LIFE .......................................................................... 552

REPLIES TO THE BUDGET ADDRESS .............................................................................................................. 553

REPLY 2-20(1): MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTONG ............................................................................................................. 553

RECOGNITION OF VISITORS IN THE GALLERY (REVERSION) ............................................................. 556

ORAL QUESTIONS ................................................................................................................................................. 556

QUESTION 205-20(1): CLIMATE CHANGE .................................................................................................................... 556

QUESTION 206-20(1): MEDICAL TRAVEL ..................................................................................................................... 557

QUESTION 207-20(1): MIDWIFERY .............................................................................................................................. 558

QUESTION 208-20(1): OBSTETRICS ............................................................................................................................ 559

QUESTION 209-20(1): SUICIDE PREVENTION SERVICES ............................................................................................... 560

QUESTION 210-20(1): ACCESSIBILITY ......................................................................................................................... 561

QUESTION 211-20(1): RCMP CANINE SERVICES IN THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES ....................................... 562

QUESTION 212-20(1): OFFICE OF THE CHILDREN’S LAWYER ......................................................................................... 563

QUESTION 213-20(1): GOVERNMENT OF THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES ASSET SECURITY PACKAGE .............................. 564

QUESTION 214-20(1): MEDICAL TRAVEL POLICY ......................................................................................................... 565

QUESTION 215-20(1): USE OF AGENCY NURSES ......................................................................................................... 566

QUESTION 216-20(1): GUARDIANS OF THE LAND PROGRAM ............................................................................... 567

REPORTS OF STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES ............................................................................ 568

COMMITTEE REPORT 1-20(1): STANDING COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT REPORT ON THE 2024-2025 MAIN

ESTIMATES, ADOPTED ............................................................................................................................................... 568

CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE OF BILLS AND OTHER MATTERS ................ 572

COMMITTEE MOTION 5-20(1): TABLED DOCUMENT 93-20(1): MAIN ESTIMATES 2024-2025, DEFERRAL OF DEPARTMENT –

EXECUTIVE AND INDIGENOUS AFFAIRS, CARRIED .......................................................................................................... 590

REPORT OF COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE .................................................................................................. 602

ORDERS OF THE DAY .......................................................................................................................................... 602

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 545

YELLOWKNIFE, NORTHWEST TERRITORIES

Wednesday, May 29, 2024

Members Present

Hon. Caitlin Cleveland, Mr. Edjericon, Mr. Hawkins, Hon. Lucy Kuptana, Hon. Jay Macdonald, Hon. Vince McKay,

Mr. McNeely, Ms. Morgan, Mr. Morse, Mr. Nerysoo, Ms. Reid, Mr. Rodgers, Hon. Lesa Semmler, Hon. R.J.

Simpson, Mr. Testart, Mr. Thompson, Mrs. Weyallon Armstrong, Hon. Caroline Wawzonek, Mrs. Yakeleya

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

Prayer

---Prayer

SPEAKER (Hon. Shane Thompson):

Colleagues, I'd like to thank Theresa Etchinelle

for the opening guiding words. As you saw

today, we had a new deputy sergeant-at-arms,

Mr. Mike Butt, and welcome to you doing your

first Mace trip in here, so thank you very much.

Give him a hand.

---Applause

Ministers' statements. Minister of Infrastructure.

Ministers’ Statements

MINISTER’S STATEMENT 36-20(1):

NORTHWEST TERRITORIES AIRPORT

IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Mr. Speaker,

transportation infrastructure projects play an

important role in the economic landscape of the

Northwest Territories, providing business and

employment opportunities while serving the

essential needs of our residents. The

Northwest Territories' 27 airports are the lifeline

of the North, connecting communities, moving

people and essential goods, providing access

to critical services like health care, and are

crucial during emergencies and evacuations for

both residents and responders. We also know

that many rely heavily on our airports,

particularly in the areas of exploration and

tourism. Today I would like to highlight some of

the Department of Infrastructure’s recent work

to improve our Northwest Territories' airports

and ensure safety across the territory. Airport

improvement projects support a number of

GNWT priorities: They provide opportunities for

a strong economic foundation and access to

health care, work to address climate change

related concerns, and contribute to the safety of

our residents and communities. To date, the

Department of Infrastructure has received

approximately $50 million dollars in Airport

Capital Assistance Program, or ACAP, funding

for 17 different projects at 11 different airports.

ACAP funding was received for a new loader

and asphalt surfaces overlay in Fort Smith, and

for an airfield electrical replacement in Fort

Simpson. Through the capital plan, drainage

improvements were completed at Sambaa K'e

and Sachs Harbour Airports, with phase 2

drainage work scheduled for this year in Fort

McPherson. In Yellowknife, ACAP funding

made it possible to modernize equipment,

creating a safer and more efficient work

environment. Further north, I am pleased to

share that the Inuvik Airport runway extension

is well underway, with material extraction

almost 90 percent complete, and runway

widening nearing the 80 percent completion

mark. Eighty-three Northwest Territories

residents are currently working on this project,

which is providing both local employment and

training opportunities. Building this airport

infrastructure is key to improving the presence

of Canadian Armed Forces to assert

sovereignty across the Arctic.

The replacement of the terminal building in

Inuvik is still in the works. The Department of

Infrastructure is currently updating the

construction cost estimates and securing the

additional financial investment needed to

advance this project. I am pleased to report that

we have received significant local interest in

undertaking this work.

Mr. Speaker, the GNWT is updating the

development plan for Fort Simpson Airport. In

March 2024, a public meeting took place in Fort

Simpson to present the plan and obtain

feedback. Residents were invited to share their

thoughts on the GNWT's engagement portal.

The plan, which will provide recommendations,

analysis, and policies for future development, is

expected to be finalized by the end of June.

Yellowknife is using its revolving fund to make

several airport improvements. A geotechnical

study on both runways is looking at solutions to

best address and repair issues related to

runway movement due to climate change. This

work will be considered and prioritized into the

Capital Improvement Plan currently under

development. Accessibility upgrades have

been made inside the terminal building,

including pet relief stations and hearing

Page 546 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

induction loops, a special type of sound system

for use by folks who use hearing aids. A tar

machine and a rapid intervention vehicle were

also purchased this year. Upcoming upgrades

include replacing airport seating in the food

court and Arrivals B area, a new passenger

processing system for airlines, pre-board

screening upgrades and asphalt overlays on

two taxiways.

Mr. Speaker, the Yellowknife Airport’s first

strategic plan is currently being drafted and will

be an action-oriented document that identifies

future development in a practical, economical,

and environmentally sustainable manner. It will

include a capital improvement program and

outline processes for identifying, planning, and

implementing capital projects at the airport. We

recently extended an invitation to meet with the

airlines for a unique opportunity to gain a

deeper understanding of the airport's

significance, ongoing developments, and future

initiatives. This kind of participation is crucial as

we strive to foster transparency, collaboration,

and a shared vision for the continued success

of Yellowknife Airport, which is a hub to all other

NWT regions. To promote accountability and

oversight, the strategic plan will be made public

and will include key performance indicators on

monitoring progress, evaluating results, and

reporting.

Mr. Speaker, the GNWT continues to make

significant investments in our airports and I look

forward to providing successful improvement

project updates at future sittings. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of

Infrastructure. Ministers' statements. Minister

for Health and Social Services.

MINISTER’S STATEMENT 38-20(1):

NON-INSURED HEALTH BENEFITS

AGREEMENT WITH CANADA

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Mr. Speaker, I want to

provide the House with an update on the

negotiations and discussions with the

Government of Canada on the delivery of the

federal Non-Insured Health Benefits Program.

This is a national program available to eligible

First Nations and Inuit residents.

In the NWT, portions of the program are

administered by the GNWT on behalf of

Indigenous Services Canada, through a

contribution agreement. Through this

agreement, the Department of Health and

Social Services is responsible for coordination

of medical travel, arranging access to dental

care and vision care services, and assisting

with access to medical supplies and equipment

for clients of the program.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Health and

Social Services entered into a new agreement

with Indigenous Services Canada at the end of

last fiscal year. This two-year agreement

provides annual funding of $47.1 million for last

year and this year. Of this amount, $22.9 million

is allocated for Non-Insured Health Benefits

Program delivery, while $24.2 million is

intended to offset additional medical travel

costs for eligible First Nations and Inuit

residents in the Northwest Territories. While

this new agreement provides a substantial

increase in funding, there remains a significant

shortfall to meet the full costs of the

Non-Insured Health Benefits Program delivery.

The terms of the agreement still do not hold

Indigenous Services Canada responsible for

the full cost of providing Non-Insured Health

Benefits to eligible Northwest Territories

residents.

The GNWT has reiterated to the federal

government that its role is solely in

administering Indigenous Services Canada's

Non-Insured Health Benefits Program in the

Northwest Territories. This should not affect the

federal government's responsibility for

Non-Insured Health Benefits for Indigenous

residents, nor should it be seen as the GNWT

assuming responsibility for costs associated

with the program. Fully funding the Non-Insured

Health Benefits Program in the Northwest

Territories NWT would also potentially remove

barriers to Indigenous governments wishing to

pursue the administration of Non-Insured

Health Benefits for their own beneficiaries and

citizens in the future.

Historic and current arrangements between the

federal government and the GNWT around the

provision of medical travel and the

administration of the non-insured health

benefits have resulted in policy and funding

gaps that are complicated to resolve. Resolving

these foundational issues is an essential first

step in making improvements to the delivery of

medical travel in the Northwest Territories and

addressing concerns with other non-insured

health benefits areas such as dental services.

Mr. Speaker, over the last year and a half,

issues related to Non-Insured Health Benefits

Program have been regularly discussed with

the Northwest Territories Council of Leaders.

Council members have taken a united position

in advocating for Indigenous Services Canada

to accept its responsibility for the full cost of this

program and to ensure that non-insured health

benefit-eligible residents receive the full

benefits afforded to them through this program.

Their support has been instrumental in moving

this issue forward with Canada, and I am

committed to continuing to collaborate with

Indigenous leadership on this important work.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 547

To initiate the next round of negotiations I,

along with the Tlicho Grand Chief and the

President of the Northwest Territories Metis

Nation, met with both Minister Holland and then

met with Minister of Indigenous Services

Canada Hajdu to discuss our concerns with the

current non-insured health benefits agreement.

We have agreed to work toward a draft

agreement that closes the funding gap and

addresses outstanding issues by the fall of

2024.

Mr. Speaker, I am committed to pursuing a new

approach to engaging with the Government of

Canada, working with Indigenous government

leadership, to ensure the federal government

upholds its responsibilities to non-insured

health benefit-eligible residents, and to working

towards a streamlined coordination of services

that benefit all the Northwest Territories

residents. Thank you. Koana. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Very good Minister's

statement. Speaker happy.

Ministers' statements. Members' statements.

Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

Members’ Statements

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 201-20(1):

MEDICAL TRAVEL FOR SENIOR CITIZENS

MR. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, travelling for medical appointments in

smaller communities in the Beaufort Delta can

take a toll on patients, either to follow up for

appointments for routine procedures or for a

more serious condition. Both physically and

mentally, we are all aware of the toll it takes.

Now, Mr. Speaker, imagine if you are an elder

and English is your second language and

you're from a small community in the Beaufort

Delta, having an escort to assist you is

essential. Mr. Speaker, I've heard too many

times that the onerous paperwork and

bureaucracy to have an escort approved is

often stressful as the travel itself.

Mr. Speaker, I hate to use the term "no brainer",

Mr. Speaker, but if you are an 80-year-old elder

from Sachs Harbour, or a community in the

Beaufort Delta, I think we can all agree that an

escort should be automatically in the travel man

if you must travel to Yellowknife, Inuvik, or

Edmonton. Mr. Speaker, I'm sure the Beaufort

Delta's not the only region that has experienced

this concern. I'm sure my colleagues from the

Sahtu or Tlicho can likely say the same.

I understand policies must be in place but, Mr.

Speaker, there must be a way of making this

process easier for our elders so at least the one

thing that they and their family do not have to

worry about when it could be one of the most

difficult times of their lives. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Inuvik Boot Lake. Members' statements.

Member from Range Lake.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 202-20(1):

MEDICAL TRAVEL

MR. TESTART: Mr. Speaker, it's not only

Northerners from smaller communities or

remote regions, it's also Yellowknifers who

have to deal with the medical travel system that

isn't serving their needs.

Last October, one of my constituents went to

Stanton Hospital because he was having

trouble breathing where it was discovered he

had a heart attack. He was sent to Edmonton

the next day but on the way developed

pneumonia and a blood infection. For a month,

he was sedated with a breathing tube but

despite the support of his doctor, his spouse

was denied medical travel. Imagine how she felt

with her husband that way, the doctors having

told her that his health could depend on her

presence, only to be flatly turned down. The

staff at Stanton and the Royal Alex did their

very best and thankfully the constituent

recovered in time, but his spouse needed to

take $6,000 out of their retirement savings so

she could provide assistance and learn how to

care for him once he returns to Yellowknife.

This put his family and her through strain and

anxiety while he fought for his life hundreds of

kilometers away.

Mr. Speaker, by forcing escorts to pay their own

way and for their own hotels when a loved one

is in a medical emergency, we are abandoning

the values of public health care. Worse yet, we

are putting patients at risk when their escorts

are denied, and they require someone to make

decisions on their behalf. Regardless of its

medical treatment, if medical treatment is

scheduled or it is due to an emergency, escorts

can be essential because they possess vital

knowledge of a patient that may be required to

understand a plan of care, yet our

policies -- policymakers seem to think

differently. The policies that are in place that are

preventing medical escorts for emergent care

when it's necessary, like the case I described,

are cruel, Mr. Speaker. Yes, budgets are tight

and medical travel is an expensive service but

rationalizing services should not result in

irrational policies that pick and choose who gets

helped. I know of other instances where

constituents were essentially compelled to

bring escorts unnecessarily or patients who

could have been treated virtually here in the

North for a fraction of the expense are sent

Page 548 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

down south anyway. We can do better but the

way -- where we need to save costs is not in

emergency situations. We need a Minister who

will fix this broken system and stop putting

patients' lives at risk. And later today, I hope

that I find one. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Range Lake. Members' statements. Member

from Great Slave.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 203-20(1):

HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS

MS. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, in a very real way, people are our

health care system, and how the dedicated

professionals who make up the system are

compensated and treated is a major factor in

the NWT's health care crisis. I stand with

nurses and all workers to have fair and

sustainable wages and benefits. To have a

resourceful, sustainable, and thriving

community, we need to be healthy, and we

desperately need health care workers to be

proud to work in the NWT health care system

that treats them with respect and values their

contributions. Nurses, and all our health care

workers, are struggling to pick up the pieces

from the pandemic, and the employer has not

truly valued them for their service. I believe that

the retention of experienced nurses and health

care workers is important to all unionized

workers.

As past president of UNW Local 40, I heard

health care workers' concerns voiced at the

bargaining conference in the summer of 2022

where the union collectively chose to stand for

those workers in this round of bargaining. I am

hopeful that the mediator will help this round of

bargaining come to a fair conclusion. Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Great Slave. Members' statements. Member

from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 204-20(1):

ILLICIT DRUG TRADE

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the sharp increase in drug crime

cross the North is having a severe impact on

my constituents, and I know my colleagues in

this Assembly are struggling to handle this

crisis as well. Drugs are flowing up from Alberta

through South Slave and eventually distributed

into every region of the Northwest Territories.

No matter how remote or isolated our

communities may be, these drugs seem to find

their way in one way or another from the

southern borders. These illegal activities bring

in violence into our communities, results in

health emergencies and overdose, tear families

apart, and corrupt our children. They drain our

communities of wealth, both financially and

culturally.

When I visit my communities, I want to see my

constituents on the land developing important

skills and providing for themselves and their

family. Instead, I see too many throwing their

health away as they fall into this trap that these

drug dealers lay for illegal profit. We all have

many dedicated RCMP members working hard

every day to stop the drug trade, but they need

more support especially in the South Slave

communities where police resources are

stretched thin. One vital piece of support they

need is a dedicated K-9 unit of trained dogs and

handlers that can intercept these drugs before

they reach their distribution.

The South Slave RCMP had government

funding for a K-9 unit over the year for ten years

but over time, these services have been lost.

Mr. Speaker, a K-9 based in Yellowknife is not

enough. We want to get a handle on the

situation. We need to restore our funding for K-

9 units in the South Slave based in Hay River

and not just for the sake of my community but

to help the RCMP across the North because

that is where we can catch large quantities of

illicit substance before they are scattered in a

dozen different direction in the North. I look

forward to asking the Minister of Justice about

restoring the K-9 unit funding in the South Slave

region this afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from Tu

Nedhe-Wiilideh. Members' statements.

Member from Mackenzie Delta.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 205-20(1):

CLIMATE CHANGE

MR. NERYSOO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We

all have been impacted by climate change,

directly or indirectly. Direct impacts of climate

change are the effects of rising temperatures on

the earth's natural system. Everyone will

experience the effects of these direct impacts,

but these impacts will affect some areas more

than others. The Northwest Territories and its

residents are feeling and seeing the effects of

global warming.

Mr. Speaker, the Arctic region is warming four

times faster than the rest of the world. The

Northwest Territories is already warmed 2 to 4

degrees Celsius since recordkeeping in the

1950s. It is noted that 6 degrees Celsius of

warming would lead to drastic changes in the

way the North looks, feels, and sustains life.

Natural Resources Canada says changes can

deeply impact the people who live in it the North

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 549

and rely on the land. It also states the speed of

changes outpacing our existence has to need

to adapt.

Mr. Speaker, Indigenous peoples live in close

connections with the land therefore they are

more directly affected by climate change.

Consequently, climate change disasters hinder

their ability to practice their Indigenous rights

and alters the transmission of their traditional

knowledge. In addition, Indigenous peoples

interpret and react to impacts of climate change

in creative ways, drawing on traditional

knowledge and other technologies to find

solutions which may help society and large

cope with impending changes.

Mr. Speaker, education can encourage people

to change their attitudes and behaviours. It also

helps them to make decisions. In the

classroom, young people can be taught the

impacts of global warming, learn how to adapt

to climate change. Education empowers

people, but especially motivates the young to

take action.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will have questions

for the Minister of Environment and Climate

Change at the appropriate time.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Mackenzie Delta. Members' statements.

Member from the Sahtu.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 206-20(1):

ILLICIT DRUG TRADE IMPACT AND

PREVENTION MEASURES

MR. McNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Drugs and addictions workshop in the youth

conference. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to

address the urgent substance misuse and drug

crisis devastating our communities across the

Northwest Territories and Sahtu region. Mr.

Speaker, I had the privilege of attending the

substance misuse and drug crisis meeting in

Fort Good Hope April 30th to May 1st organized

by the Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated. The

meeting brought together leaders, elders,

youth, and the community members to openly

discuss the challenges that plague their

communities and develop a plan moving

forward.

Mr. Speaker, the consensus was very clear. We

need immediate action on the multiple fronts to

stop illegal drugs and support those struggling

with addictions. The Sahtu demands a

comprehensive approach, including increased

law enforcement, drug education, expanded

addictions treatment, and more economic

opportunities.

Mr. Speaker, we heard heart-wrenching and

very emotional stories of lives lost and families

and suffering. The impacts on our peoples'

health is immeasurable. We cannot allow this

crisis to continue unchecked. Mr. Speaker, I call

upon this government to partner with the Sahtu

Secretariat Incorporated and our community

leaders to implement strategy in working, or

developed in stages, including more resources

for RCMP officers, drug education in schools,

local addiction counsellors, and treatment

options. And, Mr. Speaker, investments in job

training and business development.

Mr. Speaker, Tulita will host the next SSI youth

life promotional conference June 3rd to June

6th to build on work started in Fort Good Hope.

I give notice on my attendance. Our future

leaders must be commended. I request

unanimous consent to conclude my statement,

Mr. Speaker.

---Unanimous consent granted

Thank you. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. And mahsi,

colleagues. Mr. Speaker, the Sahtu is resilient,

but we need the full commitment of the

Government of the Northwest Territories to

combat this drug crisis, build healthier, and

must regain our traditional values and build

safer communities. Mr. Speaker, we cannot

lose one more life to illegal drugs. I urge all

Members to support the Sahtu substance

misuse and drug crisis plan. Together, we can

heal our communities and create a brighter

future. Mahsi.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from the

Sahtu. Members' statements. Member from

Yellowknife North.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 207-20(1):

OFFICE OF THE CHILDREN’S LAWYER

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, the Office of the Children's Lawyer

was established in the NWT in 2011. And since

around 2017, it has been under the umbrella of

the Legal Aid Commission, which is an

independent government agency. It ensures

that children can be provided with their own

lawyer to represent them directly, and this often

involves children in care. It is based on

principles outlined in the United Nations

Convention on the Rights of a Child. When the

government or anyone makes decisions about

what is in a child's best interest, the views and

wishes of that child need to be carefully

considered and understood.

Children in care sometimes have negative and

difficult relationships with their case workers, so

those children can turn to a lawyer to advocate

for them. But lawyers who take on this work

Page 550 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

face really challenging legal and ethical issues.

These roster lawyers in turn need guidance

from the Office of the Children's Lawyer, and

that office needs to be managed by a lawyer

with extensive relevant experience and an

understanding of the needs of children at

various ages and stages of development. Other

staff within Legal Aid do not have that specific

expertise.

At times, the OCL lawyer has taken on cases

themselves but, beyond that, their role includes

the following:

- Advocating about children's legal

rights to HSS, schools, families,

judges, and to other lawyers;

- Advocating for systemic change to the

child and family services process,

including changes to the Child and

Family Services Act;

- Vetting, training, and mentoring

lawyers who are assigned to children;

- Monitoring lawyers who are assigned

to children's cases and responding to

complaints about them; and

- Keeping the OCL manual and code of

conduct for lawyers up to date.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the OCL lawyer has recently

retired. If no one else takes on those roles and

responsibilities, children will be worse off

because the legal assistance being provided to

them will be compromised. I do not believe this

Assembly wants to let that happen. So at the

appropriate time, I will have questions for the

Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Yellowknife North. Oral questions. Member

from Monfwi.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 208-20(1):

RECOGNITION OF CABINET’S

COMMITMENT TO WORKING WITH

INDIGENOUS GOVERNMENTS

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, [translation

unavailable] on May 16, 2024, [translation

unavailable].

So, Mr. Speaker, the GNWT held their bilateral

meeting with the Tlicho government on May 16,

2024. Together, the GNWT and Tlicho

government are working to improve mental

health and addictions, build infrastructure,

Tlicho jurisdiction in education, Tlicho

involvement in emergency management,

continually improve co-management of wildlife.

I want to take this time to acknowledge the good

work of this Cabinet to improve relations with

Indigenous government and to take actions that

improve the lives of Indigenous people across

the territory.

I want to acknowledge the work of the Premier.

He has been proactive and made good on his

word to improve relations with Indigenous

government. Since his time in Cabinet, the

Premier has sought the advice of Indigenous

government and made himself available and

accessible. This is a true leadership.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to acknowledge the

efforts of Minister of health. The Minister of

health has worked her way from the front lines

caring directly for people's health to now

directing the department of health. For other

Indigenous -- as an Indigenous leader and

leaders, I want to say to her, we recognize -- we

recognize her good work, the good work that

she is doing. We recognize you are young, you

are Indigenous, and we have great faith in what

you can do for the government and the people

of the Northwest Territories. We know that you

truly want to improve the health of the residents

of the NWT. We support you as you move

forward to do this. Mr. Speaker, we recognize

the work the Minister is doing to improve

midwifery and address the health care workers

shortages. We know that the North depends on

agency nurses. People in small communities

know what it feels like to have a nursing station

shut down because there is no one to work it.

We recognize not everything can be improved

all at once, but we acknowledge the Minister is

taking steps in the right directions. Thank you

to the Premier, the Minister of health, and to the

Cabinet for their efforts to truly work together

with Indigenous government. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Monfwi. Members' statements. Member from

Frame Lake.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 209-20(1):

ACCESSIBILITY STANDARDS

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, the NWT Human Rights Commission

recently presented its 2022-2023 Annual

Report to the Standing Committee on

Government Operations. In keeping with trends

noted in previous reports, the commission

noted that disabilities were the basis for 59

percent of complaints brought before them. The

commission went on to highlight that there is a

gap between the National Building Code

standards for accessibility and an

organization's responsibility to provide

accessible spaces and accommodation under

the NWT Human Rights Act.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 551

In past responses to commission

recommendations that this gap be addressed

through changes to or introduction of new

legislation, the Department of Infrastructure has

responded that they do not have a mandated

responsibility for accessibility standards.

Mr. Speaker, the Human Rights Commission

does not stand alone in calling for this change.

Many residents living with disabilities and

advocates have spoken up on this issue. The

city of Yellowknife has called for accessibility

legislation or a building act which addresses

accessibility standards. I am not satisfied with

the government continuing to state they are not

mandated to step in on this issue, Mr. Speaker.

Over 22 percent of the population in the NWT

is living with a disability. I argue that the

government does have a mandated

responsibility to ensure that these residents are

provided equal opportunity to participate in

society as fully as any NWT resident.

Mr. Speaker, when I was campaigning, one

conversation I had with a constituent stood out

to me on this matter. They pointed out to me

that as well as it being a moral responsibility to

work towards an equitable society, it also has

real impacts on our economy and social fabric

when persons living with disabilities leave the

territory because accessibility is better in other

jurisdictions. At a time when we are trying to

attract residents to move here and stay, this is

one more thing we can do to help make the

territory a more attractive place to live. I would

advocate for us to take the lead here when in

fact several Canadian jurisdictions already

have accessibility legislation, so we won't be

charting a new path. We will simply be keeping

up with the pack. Let's step up and get this done

because soon we will find ourselves in a

position of being left behind. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Frame Lake. Members' statements. Member

from the Dehcho.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 210-20(1):

CONGRATULATIONS TO DEHCHO

GRADUATES

MRS. YAKELEYA: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, today's statement I wanted to honour

and provide congratulations to Dehcho

residents who will be graduated and obtaining

either their grade 12 diploma or a degree from

their post-secondary studies.

Mr. Speaker, the names of these individuals,

their achievement, and the institutions they're

graduating from include:

• Kelly Leishman from Fort Providence

is obtaining a Bachelor of Fine Arts

with a degree in drawing from the

University of Alberta;

• Annadette Bouvier who is obtaining a

Bachelor of Arts degree from the

University of Vancouver;

• Anonda Canadien is obtaining a

diploma in Indigenous Digital Film

Program from Capilano University;

• Paris Levavasseur is obtaining her

grade 12 GED in the Indigenous

Bridging Program at Mount Royal

University, and Paris is now enrolled

in her first year of a psychology

degree;

• Marie Buggins, a K'atlodeeche

member is graduating from grade 12

at Diamond Jenness School;. and

• Ronnell Landry is obtaining a nursing

degree from Aurora College.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of all of the people of

the Dehcho, I want to give a big congratulations

to each of these graduates for putting in the

work, being dedicated, and succeeding in

advancing their education. It's always a

wonderful thing to see people achieve

milestones like this in their lives, especially

Indigenous people from the North like this.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, I'd also like to wish all

other graduates from across the NWT a warm

congratulations for their achievement. I know

that the families, communities, and educators

of all northern graduates are proud of you and

proud of this moment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from the

Dehcho. Members' statements. Member from

Yellowknife Centre.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 211-20(1):

NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, the NGOs out there are the real super

heros. They may not wear capes or have

special rings, they don't fly invisible jets, but

they are a beacon of hope. Sometimes they're

the only light out there in the dark.

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to taking

responsibilities, the government doesn't want to

get its hands dirty, who does it call? An NGO,

Mr. Speaker.

Now, we shouldn't view NGOs as they

continually be as the agency of last report. Take

the Yellowknife Sobering Centre, Mr. Speaker.

Page 552 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

When it was ran by an NGO, they were capped

at under $800,000 a year. When the GNWT

runs it, they funded over $3 million a year, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that example alone is

demonstrating the government supports those

in the NGO industry not to have a living wage.

Mr. Speaker, I envision -- this is an

example -- that the finance Minister is out there

daydreaming as the day goes on in

a -- dreaming of the Mel Lastman style of pitch

for NGOs, kind of like bad boys out on the

street. Some NGO who's financially hungry and

desperate for any opportunity, they've got

sandwich boards on, they're saying -- and

pop-up balloons saying they will do trauma

supports for cheap, Mr. Speaker. Two-for-one

Tuesday for trauma, Mr. Speaker. They

are -- NGOs are so desperate they'll take any

opportunity they can.

Now, that is a fictitious example. But I worked

in the NGO sector. They are desperate for real

respect and financial supports. Mr. Speaker,

there's just no way we can keep letting them

feel this way because they truly are the

cornerstone of some of our social programs. An

NGO carries a financial burden in ways the

government cannot or will not. Mr. Speaker,

their funding does not allow them to pay for the

rent, their staff, and all their program needs

fairly and reasonably. The Yellowknife

Sobering Centre example is exactly the

example that hurts them. Any money they have

left over at the end of the year, Mr. Speaker,

gets clawed back so they can't have vision.

They can't tell their employees that they are

planning for the future. It's literally month to

month for many of these people.

Mr. Speaker, at the end of the day, we need

sustainable funding for NGOs. They need to be

treated with respect. They need inflationary and

multi-year agreements, because they matter.

And without them, we would be lost. Mr.

Speaker, hurray for the NGOs. I am here for

them, and I have no doubt all our good

Members here support them as well. Cheers.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Yellowknife Centre. Members' statements.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 212-20(1):

RON COOK CELEBRATION OF LIFE

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Colleagues, today

I would like to share with you an individual who

had a huge impact on my life personally and

professionally. The person I am talking about is

Ronald Leslie William Cook.

Ron was born on July 15, 1942 to Fred and

Irene Cook on a picnic day in Grahamdale,

Manitoba. Ron loved the outdoors on the

family's homestead in Steep Rock, Manitoba,

watching birds, chasing squirrels as a child, and

was very interested in all-things nature. He

loved watching seeds grow, eventually

becoming an avid gardener and stocking the

family's larder with fruit and produce. Ron

developed a love for team sports in his teen

years including baseball and curling.

Now, I am going to fast forward to when Ron

arrived in Hay River as a social worker. Then

Ron managed the Hay River Housing

Corporation for two years and in 1981, he took

a job running the local arena before the town

had even created a recreation department. Ron

was always a community person who loved

working together with the people. He further

developed minor hockey, as well as minor

league softball and curling. Hay River hosted

the mixed territorial curling championships

when the lounge was only the community's

arena dressing room number 1. There are

stories about how they made a makeshift floor

on the top of the pool area for temporary

fantastic lounge for an entire winter. Eventually,

Ron was hired as the town recreation director.

Colleagues, I would like to share a few stories

about Ron. When I was a young lad, I would go

and watch ball down at the Don Wright ball

park. Ron played right field for the Hay River

team. He was a very strong player but, more

importantly, it was about the team. As I said

previously, he helped develop the sport of

softball in Hay River and this helped me enjoy

the sport to this day. He was about developing

young people into strong citizens. It was about

working hard, having fun, and enjoying your

teammates and the other team.

In 1984, I was in university and I reached out to

Ron to see if we could develop a summer

program for the town. I shared some of my

ideas with him and about the importance of a

summer program. About a month later, he

reached out to me and advised me that he liked

the idea and he would be implementing the

program that summer. What I found so exciting

was that he expanded it and there were four

camps spread across Hay River that year. I was

fortunate to be one of the camp leaders that

year.

I have to say that because of him, I started to

look at the recreation field as an option. I can

tell you that I had the pleasure of working with

him for over 15 plus years. With this in mind, I

would like to have the rest of the statement

deemed as read. Colleague, he will be missed

by his family and friends, but I know he is in a

better place. God Bless you, Ron.

Colleagues, as I was entering the recreation

field, I had the opportunity to serve with Ron on

the NWTRPA board. He had a strong vision on

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 553

what he felt the recreation field should look like

for the NWT. Like all good leaders, he would

bring the best out of people especially when it

came to getting visions from folks.

In 1992, I moved to Fort Simpson as the

recreation development officer. One of the jobs

was to get community recreation coordinators

together to share ideas and come up with

regional programs. I reached out to Ron to see

if he could be part of it. After a couple of years

of asking him, he was able to fit the next

meeting into his busy schedule. At that meeting,

he listened, offered some advice, and enjoyed

the time spent with all the regional recreation

coordinators. After the three days of meetings,

he said that he was looking forward to the next

meeting.

As I was telling his wife Gale in one of the

meetings, Ron shared an issue with the group.

The recreation coordinator from Jean Marie

River spoke up after Ron described the issue

and provided him with a possible solution. Ron

got excited. This of course, confused the JMR

recreation coordinator and he said sorry. Ron

apologized to him and said he had the right

solution and the reason he was excited was

because he now had the solution to the issue.

After that, Ron was sold on the Mackenzie

Recreation Association.

I can tell you this was someone I enjoyed

talking with and asking for ideas and solutions

as we moved forward. As Gale use to joke, the

Ben Sivertz Arena was surely his second home.

Colleagues toward the end of his career, Ron

became interested in trails as "it is a healthy

outlet for people's exercise" and was the driving

force behind the 2001 Trans-Canada Trail relay

in the community. Part of his vision is the trail in

the community of Hay River. I can tell you, I

have had the pleasure of walking on it a number

of times.

Ron served two terms as a town councillor

before becoming the recreation coordinator.

Until he and the family left, he was involved in

the Baptist Church, the Kiwanis Club, and the

Curling Club. As well, he was involved with the

Mackenzie Recreation Association, the

NWTRPA, and NWT Curling Association.

As a competitive athlete, Ron competed at the

national level for curling three times (1997

2002) in both mixed and seniors' competition.

I forgot to say, when he was 16 years old Ron

relocated to Regina to complete his grade 12

and begin his post-secondary schooling at

Briercrest, Saskatchewan. Following that, he

went to Bethel College in Minneapolis,

Minnesota, and then he obtained his Master of

Social Work from the University of British

Columbia.

As a young boy, Ron put this trust in his Lord

and Saviour Jesus Christ and never missed an

opportunity to share the good news of God's

love and grace. Ron loved to visit people and

discuss sports, politics, and theology. I can tell

you that growing up, I enjoyed spending Friday

evenings as a young teenager with the youth

group he was part of.

Over the years, upon leaving Hay River, Ron

needed medical and surgical assistance along

the way and the family was very thankful to the

Almighty God for his best provisions on Ron's

life path. The family firmly believed that the

many, many prayer warriors help lift Ron and

the family to God for help in the times of need.

The family wished to express their sincere

thanks for all the medical and prayer support

they received.

In cloasing, I would like to quote Psalm 18:2:

"The Lord is my rock, my fortress and my

deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take

refuge." Until we meet again, RIP Ron.

Members' statements. Returns to oral

questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Replies to the Budget Address. Member for

Monfwi.

Replies to the Budget Address

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTONG’S REPLY

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: It's not that

bad. It's mostly for small communities and

regional centres, that we have lots of people

living in the regional centres as well that are

affected.

So, Mr. Speaker, on Friday the 2024-2025

Budget was tabled with a $2.2 billion operating

budget. The Minister states: This is a practical

and realistic budget aimed at reducing our

overall expenditures in 2024-2025 to help

restore balance and increase our fiscal capacity

to deal with unexpected events.

The Minister also states this budget is about

value and efficiency.

Mr. Speaker, I understand we are in a time of

fiscal restraint. We need to reduce our debt,

and we have to be very careful with our

spending. We have dealt with COVID, floods

and fires which has cost the GNWT a lot of

money. The cost of delivering goods and

services in the NWT is challenging and

continues to increase. We don't know what this

upcoming fire season will bring.

Page 554 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

The GNWT needs to meaningfully support local

economic development. We need to grow our

local economy to build local resilience. The

government should be putting money towards

actions that will improve the lives of residents in

small communities and regional centres and

improve the capacity of local communities

because this strengthens the territory overall.

Mr. Speaker, the people in my riding make up 6

percent of the territorial population and

represents four of the 33 communities. In the

Tlicho region, like many small communities in

the NWT, there are significant challenges to

address.

For a long time, our small communities have

fallen below the regional centres like

Yellowknife when looking at outcomes in

education, health, income, employment, labour,

mental health, housing, and the list goes on. At

this rate, the small communities will never have

equitable services for our residents. And now,

Mr. Speaker, our small communities are in a

fight for survival against drugs and crime. The

increase of drugs and criminal activity in small

communities across the NWT has mostly been

a silent killer, but the illegal activities of the drug

trades are increasing and becoming more overt

and quite apparent in the smaller communities.

We don't seem to be acknowledging or properly

addressing the crisis this brings into our

communities. And this is my concern with the

budget.

Mr. Speaker, I don't see how this budget is

going to improve the lives of residents in small

communities and other regional centres. Our

communities need us to put money behind our

words. If we are a government that wants to

improve the lives of residents in small

communities, then it would be reflected in our

territorial budget. In this budget, there is not

enough focus on prevention.

Our children and youth in small communities

need hope. They need to have positive and

healthy outlets for them to spend their time.

They need modern and safe infrastructure and

facilities to play sports and do cultural activities,

and these facilities need operational funding to

ensure programming and organized games and

other healthy activities can be scheduled

regularly for them.

Mr. Speaker what will children and youth do if

they don't have positive outlets to do sports and

recreation? We have organized crime

infiltrating our communities, corrupting our

youth, destroying families, and disrupting our

way of life. Our focus should be on ensuring

children and youth in small communities are

safe and healthy with a future to look forward

to.

Providing sports and recreation activities

enables a positive path for our youth as we

combat against high-risk behaviour. Support

the small communities to ensure children and

youth have consistent outlets in sport and

recreation. This budget needs an increase in

sport and recreation funding, specifically to

support youth and small communities.

Mr. Speaker, we also know that our

communities face a funding gap. For several

years, municipal and community governments

have been underfunded to operate and provide

services. The government of the 19th Assembly

did increase $5 million in funding for

municipalities, but we know, Mr. Speaker, there

are tens of millions of dollars still shortchanging

our communities.

By increasing the funding for municipalities, it

will not just improve the financial sustainability

of communities, but the benefits will multiply

throughout the community. By increasing

funding to communities, the GNWT will create

more local jobs, more local contracts services,

and improve programs and services for local

residents.

The capital city holds almost half of the

population of the NWT, which includes

headquarters for both the territorial and federal

government. It is the hub for most mining

activity in the NWT and contains the biggest

portion of the private sector. So in the capital

city, there are much more services, programs,

and opportunity for people. Overall, life is good

in the capital city. Many families can afford nice

homes and fill their kitchen with food, their kids

receive a good education and a have a higher

likelihood to graduate, and they can play a

variety of sports, there is health care and RCMP

services. In the capital city there is opportunity.

But, Mr. Speaker, what about the rest of the

territory?

Well, Mr. Speaker, for the rest of the territory,

the small communities are used to making do

with fewer resources. Consider, for example,

the midwifery funding for Yellowknife that is

being reallocated. Well, with all due respect, Mr.

Speaker, I know that the $900,000 for that

Yellowknife-based program can be used

somewhere else. Moreover, also on the topic of

health care, I want to comment on agency

nurses.

Mr. Speaker, I know that there are several

Members here who want to eliminate entirely

the usage of these agency nurses within the

NWT. However, Mr. Speaker, I am unsure

whether the NWT will ever be able to

completely cut the usage of agency nurses

across all communities. Because if we did, then

some small community health centres would be

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 555

left sitting empty and unused and they'd

eventually close completely, Which would put

our communities' safety at risk and leave no

health professionals present at all. That can

never happen, Mr. Speaker.

This brings me to my next point about cuts, Mr.

Speaker. I am speaking specifically about the

cuts to the Fort Smith Correctional Centre. Are

these cuts the beginning of broader cuts for

other regional centres and small communities?

What will they cut in next year's budget, or

during the rest of the 20th Assembly? I guess

we will wait and see.

Our small communities are deteriorating on top

of underfunded budgets, rising costs of

inflation, and rising costs of goods and services.

They are fighting an increase of violence and

crime and are increasingly having to respond to

emergencies and natural disasters.

The biggest form of support the GNWT can

provide to communities to increase their local

economy, to increase social programs and

services, to provide more opportunities for

residents, and improve the lives of residents in

small communities is to put the money directly

into the hands of communities. This budget

needs to increase funding for municipalities.

The support that ECE has in place, such as the

Small Community Employment Fund, is an

excellent program that supports communities to

hire summer students in a variety of local

positions. This budget line needs to be

increased.

Another way to support small communities is

through decentralization, transfer of jobs and

services away from the capital. In the past, the

government has recognized the value of

moving jobs and services into the regions and

smaller communities but in this budget, I don't

see decentralization happening.

Overall, the government has reduced some

positions for this fiscal year but, Mr. Speaker,

the value of moving jobs into the regions has

been overlooked. Decentralization can

stimulate growth in communities. We need to

focus services where the service is needed

most. The GNWT should have positions and

services transferred into small communities for

this budget.

Mr. Speaker, I represent four small

communities in the NWT. I come from a small

community so I've seen firsthand the

challenges our communities face.

We know that many families, as their children

get older, they leave our small communities. It

is not uncommon for families to relocate to

regional centres so their kids receive a better

education and have more opportunity.

Mr. Speaker, people also leave because some

don't feel safe as they once did. Our homes and

communities are not the same places they used

to be. There is minimal programs and services,

little opportunities for jobs, and our youth have

too much free time on their hands which makes

them vulnerable and more likely to get into

trouble and be negatively influenced. Our small

communities need the attention and focus of

this government to ensure all children, no

matter where they live in the NWT, to have

equitable access to opportunities by investing

in:

- Sports and recreation;

- The municipal funding gap; and

- Enhancing small community

employment programs.

We are supporting small communities. These

are areas, Mr. Speaker, that I want to see the

budget improve. I have spoken many times

about housing. We are in a housing crisis in the

NWT. We have overcrowded, unrepaired, and

deteriorating units. We have people homeless

and couch surfing. Housing is another major

issue why people aren't living in small

communities and why people are actually

moving out of small communities because there

is simply nowhere to live. It is surprising that the

overall Housing NWT budget is reduced

compared to last year, given the state of

housing in the territory. How is the GNWT going

to improve the state of public housing units or

build the units needed in communities with a

reduced budget? The GNWT knows the cost of

addressing core need in the NWT is

approximately $300 million in capital and $18

million in ongoing operational funding. Mr.

Speaker, how will the GNWT bring the units it

has out of core need with a reduced budget?

We need to increase homeownership in the

NWT to reduce the demand on public housing,

yet these budget lines are reduced. The

Homeownership Entry Level Market Housing

Program and the Homeownership Assistance

Programs are reduced. How is the GNWT going

to increase homeownership?

I would also like to know how many units

Housing NWT will sell to clients over

2024-2025. Housing has many older units that

could be sold to clients at prices clients could

afford. This will increase homeownership and

reduce the burden on housing to maintain

them. I want to see the budget provide more

focus on housing supports, specifically for small

communities, to fix up the public housing units

that exist and to support and expand

homeownership. I recognize the housing

Minister is formalizing relations with Indigenous

Page 556 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

governments in regards to housing, and this will

support creative solutions. This is positive.

I am concerned, however, that the budget that

is required to fix up the units currently operated

by Housing NWT is insufficient, and this is

among my biggest concerns with this budget. I

would like to see more resources towards

housing to ensure that our residents, those

especially in smaller communities, have a safe,

affordable, accessible, and suitable home.

These are my priority issues for the budget that

I would like to see improved. These are

changes that will meaningfully improve life for

those in small communities, and this should be

the priority of the GNWT, to help those most in

need. Mashi cho. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Monfwi. Replies to the Budget Address.

Colleagues, I'm going to go back to number 5,

recognition of visitors in the gallery. I was a little

quick to get to number 6. Member from

Nunakput.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

(Reversion)

HON. LUCY KUPTANA: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. I apologize for my hand being late.

You were pretty quick. I just want to have an

opportunity today to recognize Beverly Amos.

Beverly here is visiting us in the House. She's

one of our very few Inuvialuktun language

experts in the Northwest Territories. There's

very few of them left, so I want to take this

opportunity to recognize Beverly. Her

hometown is Sachs Harbour, Northwest

Territories, and she now lives with her husband

Lawrence at their cabin at Hans Bay on the

Inuvik-Tuktoyaktuk Highway. So welcome,

Beverly.

MR. SPEAKER: Welcome to your House, and

thank you very much for allowing us to

represent the people of the Northwest

Territories.

Recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Acknowledgements. Oral questions. Member

from Mackenzie Delta.

Oral Questions

QUESTION 205-20(1):

CLIMATE CHANGE

MR. NERYSOO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First

of all, I would like to extend birthday greetings

out to a special lady who is 85 years young

today. Colleagues, I'd like to wish my aunty

Mary Effie Snowshoe who is celebrating her

birthday today. She's from Teet'lit Zheh.

Mr. Speaker, we have all seen the effects of

climate change in the North and, specifically, in

our communities. The erosions of the

shorelines, wildfires and drought, just to name

a few. What is the government doing to address

the seriousness of climate change within the

Northwest Territories and the impacts on the

Indigenous peoples of this land? Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Mackenzie Delta. Minister of Environment and

Climate Change.

HON. JAY MACDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. And thank you to the Member for the

question. I think as we have all seen over the

last couple of years specifically, climate change

has certainly played a large role in things all

across the territory between floods and wildfire

and, you know, a lot of challenges have been

faced. The GNWT specifically is taking action

with partners all across the territory in the North

to mitigate and adapt to climate change. We

invest significant resources to address climate

change, including implementing actions

identified in our climate change and energy

action plans. ECC is also the lead on climate

change and is using a coordinated

interdepartmental approach with priorities that

include transitioning to a lower carbon economy

and privy climate knowledge in the North and

building resilience while adapting to the impacts

of climate change. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. NERYSOO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Education is very important in teaching our

residents about climate change. It is especially

important to engage with our young, with your

youth, because they are the ones who inherited

this human-caused disaster. What is this

government doing to educate our young people

on how to adapt to climate change? Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

HON. JAY MACDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, ECC will continue to

work with the GNWT climate change outreach

plan to increase climate change awareness and

increase capacity toward climate change all

across the NWT. And I don't want to speak for

the Minister of Education, Culture and

Employment, but ECC would certainly be

interested in pursuing conversations around

ensuring that we are addressing the issue of

climate change and how it relates to youth. So

I will commit to having that conversation with

the Minister at the appropriate time. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 557

MR. NERYSOO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How

is the government using traditional knowledge

from the Indigenous peoples to adapt and

combat climate change? Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

HON. JAY MACDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. And thank you to the Member for the

question. I think ECC certainly has taken the

approach that incorporating traditional

knowledge is a really important area of how we

do our day-to-day work in all areas throughout

the department and certainly is a big

component in how we approach climate

change, ensuring that we are hearing all of the

voices from all of the communities and affected

people across the Northwest Territories. Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of ECC.

Final supplementary. Member from Mackenzie

Delta.

MR. NERYSOO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Does the department have a website where the

residents can go to get information on funding

to assist in education or alternative of any of

these solutions? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

HON. JAY MACDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't have the specifics

of that request with me, but I commit to

providing that information to the Member.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of ECC.

Oral questions. Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

QUESTION 206-20(1):

MEDICAL TRAVEL

MR. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, in my Member's statement, I spoke

about the issues we're having with escorts for

elders travelling to Yellowknife or Inuvik or

Edmonton. I'd like to ask my colleague, the

Minister of Health and Social Services, what the

department's doing to look at dealing with the

issue of the onerous bureaucracy that these

elders have to go through to get an escort to

escort them out? Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Inuvik Boot Lake. Minister of Health and Social

Services.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, within our medical travel

policy, it, you know -- and I'm not sure if I

mentioned it in this House before -- but there

are many streams in our medical travel policy.

There are the NIHB clients who fall under the

NIHB rules. There are the Metis benefits. There

are extended health client benefits clients that

all fall -- those ones fall under the GNWT

medical travel policy.

When it comes to regards to escorts, Mr.

Speaker, there are certain criteria in the escort

policy that must be -- you know, that the

person -- whoever's travelling, if it is an elder,

as the Member has mentioned in the statement,

that can't speak English, then that should be put

in as a request as there is a language barrier

and that would be -- fall under our policy. But if

it is put in as an elder and because of their age,

that doesn't meet our criteria. If it's an

Indigenous person, it doesn't meet NHIB's

criteria. Right now, there's an actual

program -- I think it's a pilot program that's

being funded by ISC, Indigenous Services

Canada, with Inuvialuit. So Inuvialuit members

can go through their office and request for -- if

they are denied through NHIB criteria, they can

apply through them to have compassion

escorts or, you know, and so. But that is directly

a bilateral between that group. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And

I understand there's a policy for this. What I'm

saying is that if you have an elder, is there not

a way -- and I get that, you know, there is the

different plans out there. But, again, you have

an elder who whether they're going down to

have a hangnail removed, it doesn't matter. If

there's an elder and they don't speak English,

they need to be navigated, they need help

navigating even to get to their appointments, is

there not something we can do to kind of

streamline that so, again, that paperwork is not

being done. If there's not anybody in -- and

medical travel is medical travel, and I'm sure

the Minister has heard many, many questions

on medical travel. Is there not something we

could do to streamline that so when you get to

the situation of you have an elder in the

community, it's just automatic there's an escort

in there.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if there are -- you know,

I guess, again, if it's an elder, you know -- I hear

the Member. I know of many stories, you know,

and I'm not going to deny that this is something

that we are aware of. We know this is a gap in

our policy, and that is why the medical travel

policy is its own target in our -- you know, in the

business plans. And so this is one of the areas

that I really want to focus on. I want to use some

of the information I will learn probably from the

bilateral with Inuvialuit, and also to be able to

hear from -- we have the Indigenous patient

advocates who are constantly hearing this.

They're taking the data. We know that this is an

issue. And I'm not going to say in this House

that it's not a gap, but it is, and I recognize it,

Page 558 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

and I am working towards trying to figure out

ways to deal with this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And

I'm very happy to hear that. And I know the

Minister realizes that this is not -- this is not a

new concern, something that's been just

brought to the forefront.

Can the Minister elaborate a little more, I guess,

on medical travel and the plan? Is medical

travel in its entirety undergoing a review, or are

we just looking at kind of the escort side. Maybe

the Minister could speak to that. Thank you.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Mr. Speaker, I will say

that I want the entire -- how we move patients

in the Northwest Territories is what the focus I

want to look at. How we move them, who's

moving, what are the things that we cannot

have to move people for. Is there ways that we

can put things into communities that it's going

to be less expensive in the long run. It's more of

a fulsome review of how we move people for

medical in the Northwest Territories. Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Health

and Social Services. Final supplementary.

Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

MR. RODGERS: Thank you. And that is,

indeed, excellent news, and I'm sure it's

excellent news for those that have been

struggling with our medical travel system for the

past several years. Just, again, a final question.

I mean, likely it's a redundant question given

how this government has now been

approaching what we do, but she will be

engaging and consulting with all Indigenous

governments on this plan, I assume? Thank

you.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Yes, thank you.

Medical travel is, I think, probably one of the

standing agenda items with Indigenous

governments. Every Indigenous government

that we speak to will raise this issue. I am

committed to continuing to work with

Indigenous governments and hearing what

their concerns are with how we move patients.

They've also stressed the issues from the

Council of Leaders to Indigenous Service

Canada, how we move patients. So it's not just

the government policy part. It's the work that

we're doing on the NIHB medical travel policy

with -- you know, in collaboration with

Indigenous governments. So thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Health

and Social Services. Oral questions. Member

from Yellowknife Centre.

QUESTION 207-20(1):

MIDWIFERY

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, my questions are to the Minister of

health, more so specifically to the challenges

obstetrics has had over the years and the

midwives. So, Mr. Speaker, my question

specifically goes directly to the issue of what

evidence-based evaluation's been used to

re-profile the midwifery money to other

purposes? Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Yellowknife Centre. A little bit on the line there

but I'm going to go to the Minister of Health and

Social Services.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: The work that's being

done in the obstetrics unit is guided by, you

know, the staff feedback that was done. So I

can speak to that.

As for the midwifery area that -- you know,

midwifery, the positions that -- in Yellowknife

that have been there -- you know, I think that is

a separate discussion. The obstetrics stuff

that's been going on and trying to maintain our

basic service and trying to fill that gap on the

obstetric, there has been work. There has

been -- like I said in this House before, the

staffing complement has changed, and that

was at the recommendation of the staff -- the

previous staff that had put forward. And so we

are trying to accommodate that and provide

training on that unit so that way we can build up

the capacity there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, tieing it back to the obstetrics issue,

again we're talking about children in the context

of birthing and supporting. How do we meet

these needs through locum nurses and how

does -- through the evidence-based process,

how is it defined as cheaper or smarter? Thank

you.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: I'm not sure how I

answer quite that -- cheaper and smarter,

providing health care services in the Northwest

Territories to, you know, birthing people that are

waiting to have babies is always going to be

cheaper. Having staff that we can, you

know -- using locums, bringing locums in,

they -- you know, that's been one of the areas

that we -- you know, even with locums, that

is -- we try to hire full-time first and then if we

can't hire full-time, then we go to terms, which

locums are more for physicians. That's the term

they use for physicians. We use terms, term

contracts with nurses, which are fully -- they

fully fall under the line of the collective

agreement when we hire them. They're the

same pay, the same benefits, but they provide

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 559

the service. This is an expertise area that needs

extra training. And we need specialized nurses

that can work in this area so that women can

have safe births. We also have accreditation

which also looks at how our policies in that unit

are safe practice. And so those are done in

Stanton and in Inuvik to make sure that those

birthing services are safe for the Northwest

Territories' residents. And the less risk that we

have, the safer, the less cost it is. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MR. HAWKINS: Mr. Speaker, the Minister says

they've tried to hire the positions, but I can

assure you the midwife advertisements for

hiring has gone silent for some time. So, Mr.

Speaker, back to the evidence-based question,

what evidence-based analysis has proven

this -- proven these solutions that the Minister

has claimed to make are proven as facts?

Thank you.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Mr. Speaker,

evidence-based or not, we need a basic

delivery service. We need birthing services. We

need a birthing service that is going to be

staffed. That's what we're working towards. And

that is what we are focused on in getting a

birthing service in Yellowknife that we

can -- you know, stabilize. Adding -- you know,

expanding midwifery is an extra, like I said, in

Yellowknife. It's not an extra in Fort Smith, and

it's not an extra in Hay River. And, you know, it

expanded from Fort Smith to Hay River. It even

expanded in Fort Smith, the more midwifery.

And so right now, we're having a hard time even

keeping those positions filled, so we need to

focus where there's no birthing services. And

that's what I'm doing, and that's what I'm

committed to doing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Health

and Social Services. Final supplementary.

Member from Yellowknife Centre.

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

When the Minister responds to saying

evidence-based or not, does that draw the

question that the department doesn't use

evidence to make these decisions, or do they

just make the decisions off the side of the table?

Could the Minister clarify are they using facts or

fiction to come up with these results? Thank

you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Yellowknife Centre. Minister of Health and

Social Services.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Point of Order, Mr.

Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The

Member -- I believe the Member was

questioning whether or not the Minister was

using fact or fiction, essentially telling mistruths.

But I may have misheard the Member and if I

did, I apologize. But from this side, it sounded

like the Member had crossed that line. Thank

you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Mr. Premier. Can

we stop the clock for a second, please.

To the Member, Yellowknife Centre, can you

please clarify, please.

MR. HAWKINS: Actually, you know, it's fine.

I'm comfortable with taking the context of fiction

away. I don't feel like I want to tie Assembly time

up so I withdraw the point of fiction, and

basically, I'm back to the point -- I'll withdraw it,

but I'll say are they using facts or creativity to

make these decisions? Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Member, thank you. Member,

can you please clarify what you just -- what are

you trying to achieve, please. Thank you.

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Are

they using facts to come up with these

decisions? Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member. Minister

of Health and Social Services. Thank you.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Yes. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Health

and Social Services. Oral questions. Member

from Great Slave.

QUESTION 208-20(1):

OBSTETRICS

MS. REID: Wow, okay. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are

also for the Minister of Health and Social

Services. Could the Minister please confirm if

the majority of need for agency nurses is in

obstetrics? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Great Slave. Minister of Health and Social

Services.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Mr. Speaker, we only

have two obstetric units in the Northwest

Territories. One is at Stanton, one is in Inuvik,

and that is currently where they are. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MS. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank

you to the Minister for that clarity.

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister

confirm -- although I did hear her say a little bit

about this in an earlier answer, so I'll reframe

my question on the fly. Can the Minister confirm

how local nurses are being able to be -- or will

be able to be trained in labour and delivery.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Page 560 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. And thank you to the Member for this

question. Currently, yes, nurses can train in the

Northwest Territories to be obstetric nurses.

How they do that, you know, there's multiple

different ways. Back in the day when I trained,

it was more of a mentorship, and you take

certifications. Now it's a little bit more technical.

So they do have to have hours. They do have

to have a mentor. Currently, within our OBS,

there are nurses receiving training and

becoming fully competent in this specialized

area. And as a result of this training, we have

increased our capacity. And although the OBS

unit still requires agency support to offset some

of these vacancies, they're also allowing

training of labour and delivery nurses in the

need -- in this unit. So I just want to make sure

that the Member knows that over the time that

these nurses have been training as well is that

the less and less we're becoming reliant on

them in this unit. Thank you.

MS. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank

you to the Minister. That's really great to hear.

And to, you know, echo my colleague from

Monfwi's statement earlier today, it's really

good to hear that this Minister's supporting

things over time and getting us there, and I

hope she can get us there as quickly as

possible. So to that end, is the Minister's

department willing to invest further in training

local NWT health care workers to increase their

skill sets? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can confirm we have

things in place already, and I think the more and

more we are starting to utilizing them to fill and

train specialized nursing, we have a specialized

nursing training program. We have the

Targeted Academic Support Program. We have

professional development initiative funding,

which can all be accessed by current staff who

wish to gain their certification to work in more

specialized areas. And as mentioned, any RN

who is interested to being trained in a specialty

area can submit their request in a few different

ways by applying to the specialized nursing

training program or can reach out to their

supervisor. And I am hopeful that we can repeat

our successes in other areas that we have been

able to eliminate agency nurses in the main

hospital. And over the past year, through

interventions like specialized nursing transition

programs, which as a combination of

recruitment efforts, has allowed us to eliminate

agency nurses in our operating room, in the

medicine units, and effectively reducing overall

agency nurses by half of what it was at this time

last year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Health

and Social Services. Oral questions. Member

from the Sahtu.

QUESTION 209-20(1):

SUICIDE PREVENTION SERVICES

MR. McNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Following up on my Member's statement on the

drug addictions here, my question here is to the

Minister of Health and Social Services. Can the

Minister explain in short the types of funding

available for addictions recovery. Mahsi.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from the

Sahtu. Minister of Health and Social Services.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker -- and I thank the

Member for raising this concern. You know, the

more and more we talk about this, the more and

more it becomes normalized, and we're able to

work together to try and find solutions.

The Department of Health and Social Services,

two programs currently available. We have the

community suicide prevention fund and the

community wellness and addiction recovery

fund, which is a fund that we actually, from

recommendations last government, was asked

to be put together and have less -- it's more

flexible for Indigenous governments to access.

The community suicide prevention fund

supports the delivery of culturally safe

programs focusing on prevention of suicide and

increasing community wellness, reducing

stigma, and the development of implementation

of suicide prevention strategy.

Within the community wellness and addiction

recovery fund, prioritizes Indigenous

governments and supports to the delivery of

community-based mental wellness and

addiction recovery programs that meet the

unique needs of the respective communities.

And as currently right now, we are currently

accepting applications for the 2024-2025 fiscal

year. And so I encourage, like, Members of this

House to reach out to their Indigenous

governments and Indigenous NGOs to access

these dollars. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. McNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And

I want to thank the Minister for making those

funds known and available to support the

problems we have. It's very -- still disturbs me

today on the outcomes that I've seen on my last

session in the Sahtu.

My next question is on the O and M side of

operations and designing your efforts to bring

resolution to the problem is, to me, in various

parts. My next is there O and M funding to

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 561

support the operations of an on-the-land

treatment centre? Mahsi.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, the funding

through the community wellness and addiction

recovery fund is to support Indigenous

governments to deliver community-based

mental health and addiction recovery programs

unique to their needs, and Indigenous

governments may absolutely choose to use

their funding for O and M and on-the-land

programs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. McNEELY: Okay, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

And thanks for the response to the Minister.

Now let's move on to another little issue of

supports here, employees, staffing.

Can the Minister elaborate or respond on

support availability and into a secondment of

counselling positions to assist the Sahtu

Secretariat in designing and delivering this

recovery program to address the drug and

addictions issues they're facing? Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, right now I can't commit

to a secondment but what I'm willing to do is

work collaboratively with SSI and other

Indigenous governments to implement

programs to support mental wellness. I'm also

committed to supporting Indigenous

governments and communities advancing

these wellness solutions that are grounded in

cultural communities and their perspectives. I

welcome the opportunity to learn more about

the vision. And I know that the Member has got

some work that they'll be doing next week in

their region, and I look forward to hearing and

seeing what's coming out of that. But I do want

to say that this money under the community

wellness addiction recovery fund, I said -- as I

said, it was very flexible and so the -- if the SSI

decided that they wanted to hire a counsellor

with that money or they wanted to use it for on

the land or they wanted to use it -- it's flexible

for them to design their own way that they want

it, and then the regional governments, and if

they choose to, you know, there's even

opportunities to go into multi-year funding

agreements if they have a plan. But just to

continue to work with our department, if you

need more information. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Health

and Social Services. Oral questions. Member

from Frame Lake.

QUESTION 210-20(1):

ACCESSIBILITY

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, my question is for the Minister of

Infrastructure. It's quite simple. Will the Minister

of Infrastructure bring forward accessibility

legislation for the NWT during the life of the

20th Assembly?

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Frame Lake. Minister of Infrastructure.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one of the first things

I asked the department to look at was building

a building standards framework for the

Northwest Territories. And that can certainly

include an accessibility provision within it. That

work's only just getting underway, obviously

depending upon the passing of the budget, to

determine what kind of ability our departments

all have to conduct that work, but hopefully we

will be in a position to achieve what's in our

business plan which is a buildings standards

framework and one that includes accessibility

within its provisions. Thank you.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And just

to get a bit of clarification, I believe the Minister

said building standards framework. Is this going

to be a Building Act, or are we talking about

something different? Because I know the city of

Yellowknife has been asking for a Building Act

with accessibility standards built into it, so can

the Minister provide some clarity on that. Thank

you.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it's my hope that it is

a Building Act. Again, at this point, it's in our

business plan. It's part of the work that would

happen with the department, subject to where

we land in terms of our budgets here. But if we

are in a position, that is my intention, is that we'll

move forward. We have a working group

formed now and hoping to get started the

process of developing what would go into a

Building Act for the Northwest Territories,

including what kind of accessibility legislation it

would include. That would be what comes in the

next fiscal year, or over the course of the next

fiscal year, leading ultimately up to the process

that builds towards that Act. Thank you.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is the

Minister able to give the Assembly a timeline for

this? When can the Assembly expect a

legislative proposal to come forward within

reasonable time that the Assembly would be

able to establish this new legislation within

our -- the term of the 20th? Thank you.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't have my

business plans open in front of me right now. I

think for the next fiscal year is the part that I

Page 562 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

have in mind and the first step already having

been achieved is a working group. The next

step is the work plan to scope out what should

or potentially should be included in a building

standards or a Building Act. And that, really,

would be the first set of deliverables. Once we

know the scope of what would be included, for

example, including accessibility, that can

determine the size and scope and timeline

required for a full Act. I would certainly hope

that we could get to the point of an LP soon

thereafter, whether it would get all the way to

being passed this Assembly or not, again, will

depend on the scope and size of the Act. But it

was certainly, as I said, one of the first asks I

made when I had the opportunity to take on this

portfolio. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of

Infrastructure. Final supplementary. Member

from Frame Lake.

Oral questions. Member from Tu

Nedhe-Wiilideh.

QUESTION 211-20(1):

RCMP CANINE SERVICES IN THE

NORTHWEST TERRITORIES

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I spoke about the issue about

drugs throughout the Northwest Territories as

coming through the borders. Mr. Speaker, my

question would be to the Minister of Justice.

Can the Minister of Justice shed light on why

the South Slave no longer has a dedicated K-9

unit and when that service was lost? Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from Tu

Nedhe-Wiilideh. Minister of Justice.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The K-9 unit was established in Hay River after

the death, the murder, of Constable Chris

Worden. And it was stationed there until 2018.

That was the time when the RCMP undertook a

review of the situation, and they determined

that it was not as effective to have the police

dog in Hay River. It's a territorial asset. And so

if there was an incident in the Sahtu, let's say,

they would have to fly to Hay River, get the dog,

and then head up. There's a number of other

situations as well. I can leave it at that I guess,

because things -- new things have come to

light. But there's other issues like the inability of

the RCMP to now just do, you know, quote

unquote, random searches, you might not have

the legal grounds to search someone. But, you

know, you used to be able to go and sniff the

dog around and see if got an indication if there

was any contraband, any drugs, but you can no

longer do things like that. So the value of having

the dog in Hay River, according to the RCMP's

analysis, wasn't there relative to having it in

Yellowknife where it was easier to deploy to

other places in the territory. Thank you.

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

How is our only current K-9 unit based in

Yellowknife able to serve the needs of the entire

Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

And I can assure the Member that, you know,

I'm the Minister of Justice and I'm from Hay

River, so these are not questions that I have not

asked before. I've had conversations with my

colleagues and with the commanding officer

about this because I -- you know, I have that

same sense as anyone else. Like, who doesn't

want a police dog in their community, especially

when you're feeling the effects of drugs. So

the -- having the K-9 based in Yellowknife

allows it to be quickly -- more quickly deployed

to locations where it needs, whether that is in

the South Slave or elsewhere, and it is often

sent down to the South Slave. It also allows for

enhanced -- or I guess easier training. There

are requirements in place where the handlers

and the dogs need training together at the same

time. And so if the dog was outside of

Yellowknife, it would have to fly into Yellowknife

along with the handler, do the training, and fly

back. So you'd be looking at three, four days

out of the community every single week. So

there are circumstances like that as well.

There's also been issues with, I think, burnout

with the RCMP who just have the one handler

who is doing the majority of the work, the one's

based in Yellowknife. So, you know, there's a

multitude of issues here. And I'll say, if I had an

unlimited budget, I'd have two dogs and two

handlers in Hay River as well, but that's not the

situation we're in. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd

like to thank the Minister for responding.

Knowing what we know now about the drug

problems in the Northwest Territories that

impacts our homes and our communities, will

the Minister take a look at reviewing this whole

K-9 unit needed for Hay River and commit to

funding that if possible. It's urgently needed

here now in the Northwest Territories with the

crisis we have and the drug problems. Thank

you.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have discussed this with the RCMP. They are

not making that request for an additional K-9

unit so it's hard for me to force it on them if

they're not asking for it. That being said, the

landscape has changed. The ability for the

dogs to go and do random searches of people

essentially is not there anymore. And so we

need to look at what other tools we can utilize

that are going to be more effective given the

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 563

new legal environment that we're living in.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Justice.

Final supplementary. Member from Tu

Nedhe-Wiilideh.

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you. I hear what the

Minister is saying and, again, you know, we do

have problems that are hitting home, and I'm

deeply concerned about it as a Member. Is

there -- so if we can fund it and we don't have

the money, how can we address this issue to

better monitor the drug problems as coming

through the borders in the South Slave region

here into the Northwest Territories; what can we

do different? And can we maybe have a

meeting with the RCMP and have them to look

at this issue again and see if we could look at

funding this again. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There is -- the commanding officer -- the former

commanding officer is now gone but we have

an acting commanding officer in that role, and I

don't believe that the standing committee has

met with that new commanding officer. So I

recommend that they reach out and they

request a meeting. I think that would be

valuable to have these discussions, you know,

with the people who would actually be, you

know, working with the dogs. But to the

Member's question, what can we do to disrupt

the drug trade? Mr. Speaker, we're trying. The

RCMP have a new strategy. I spoke about it

yesterday. We've seen a significant, significant

increase in the amount of drugs seized, the

amount of charges. We're looking at new

legislation. So we are taking steps to address

this because, as I've said many times, I

recognize the severity of the issue. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Justice.

Oral questions. Member from Yellowknife

North.

QUESTION 212-20(1):

OFFICE OF THE CHILDREN’S LAWYER

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My

questions are for the Minister of Justice. Can

the Minister speak to what value the Office of

the Children's Lawyer has added since its

establishment in 2011, including the value of

the support it has offered to the roster of

lawyers who take on cases advocating for

children? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Yellowknife North. Minister of Justice.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

And the children's lawyer provided great value,

of course. That position is now vacant. But the

person who was in there did a lot of work and

it's very appreciated, those efforts. The

children's lawyer would meet regularly with the

panel of children's lawyers. So there's the

Office of the Children's Lawyer, and they

essentially oversee a panel of lawyers in

various places in the territory, I believe one is

also in Edmonton, and they assign cases to

those panel lawyers. They would also provide

some professional development opportunities,

do research, keep up to date on what's

happening in the world of children's law. They

updated the -- they were responsible for

updating the policy manual for the office. They

were responsible -- or they oversaw the

migration of all the data collected by the office

into the new legal aid information data base. So

they performed a number of different roles.

Thank you.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So I

understand that the manual for the Office of the

Children's Lawyer has been completed. But can

the Minister explain how often that manual is

supposed to continue to be updated and

reviewed and who would be best suited to

complete that work? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The manual needs to be updated as

new -- there's new developments in best

practices and case law and things like that. And

so in the future, it's possible that the -- those

roles will be done by other members of

the -- other lawyers in the Legal Aid

Commission. We do have a number of lawyers

who specialize in family law who deal with

children's law. There's opportunities for those

staff to have professional development

opportunities to learn more about children's

law. I'm sure they get notifications in their inbox

when there are significant cases that impact the

world of children's law. So there is capacity

among the other lawyers to undertake that work

when needed. Thank you.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So

the agenda for this government includes

amending the Child and Family Services Act to

address the 19th Assembly's Standing

Committee on Social Development's

recommendations and to align the Act with the

federal Act respecting First Nations, Inuit, and

Metis children and youth. So how does the

Minister propose to gain specialized advice

about the legal rights of children as part of its

review of the Child and Family Services Act, or

propose changes to related acts, such as the

Children's Law Act or the Family Law Act. So

how does the Minister propose to gain advice

on -- as we review the Acts during this

Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Page 564 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As with any initiative, I expect that the relevant

department will undertake a thorough review

and reach out to experts as needed. I just want

to reassure everyone that the Northwest

Territories has no shortage of lawyers. I think

we have four times the number of lawyers per

capita compared to the rest of Canada. There's

plenty of legal advice out there for the taking.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Final supplementary. Member

from Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My

final question just would be does the Minister

know how many lawyers we have that

specifically specialize in children's -- or law -- I

don't know if children's law is a thing, but law

that specifically pertains to the legal rights of

children? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I believe there are seven panel lawyers who are

regularly assigned files by the children's lawyer.

So that's just within the territory and those are

just the panel lawyers. And I'm not sure how

many other lawyers in the territory also have

expertise in that area. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Justice.

Oral questions. Member from Yellowknife

Centre.

QUESTION 213-20(1):

GOVERNMENT OF THE NORTHWEST

TERRITORIES ASSET SECURITY PACKAGE

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, my questions are directed to the

Minister of Infrastructure, and it's about

security. What -- does the Department of

Infrastructure have any policies built around

security of buildings for staff and clients? Thank

you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Yellowknife Centre. Minister of Infrastructure.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Department of

Infrastructure does have some buildings where

we are the owner, other buildings where we are

a lessee. And in some cases, we would support

other departments. So I'm not sure if the

Member's referring to which of those types of

situations. We certainly do have a lot of

situations where we have had recently retained

security firms to perhaps support particular

buildings that are within our purview. And as far

as policies, I can certainly get back to the

Member. If there's a specific policy, there would

have been an procurement process that went

out in order to identify having security staff

when that is deemed appropriate or necessary.

Thank you.

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'll

accept the Minister's offer of that. That said, the

next question is do we have any policies that

restrict the use of cameras intended for security

that do not record sound on any of our assets

as a territorial government? Thank you.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. I will have to get back to the

Member as to whether there is a policy on

cameras that restrict sound, if I understand that

correctly. I suspect there probably is not such a

specific policy, Mr. Speaker, and so if there's a

particular issue that the Member's trying to get

at here, I'd be happy to hear it. Thank you.

MR. HAWKINS: The reason I say sound is

because if I understand it correctly, although I'm

not a lawyer, but you're not allowed to record

unsuspecting peoples' conversations, etcetera.

So that's why I'm saying without the sound

piece, just to be -- so I go back to the question,

is the Minister aware of any video cameras

providing security on any NWT assets? Thank

you.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. If it's on any NWT asset, that is a

fairly large number of assets, Mr. Speaker, and

so I will want to ensure that I am providing an

accurate response. I'll have to take that away

and see if there are cameras on any asset

across the portfolio of the Northwest Territories

government. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of

Infrastructure. Final supplementary. Member

from Yellowknife Centre.

MR. HAWKINS: I'm pleased to narrow it down,

Mr. Speaker. I'm more referring to office

buildings. I'm sure airports have video cameras,

etcetera. I'm more referring to office buildings

and that similar type of nature where we have

employees and day-to-day clients. Thank you.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my understanding is

that there are cameras that are in use for

security purposes. Exactly, again, across the

entire portfolio of assets and nature of each

one, I'll want to just confirm so that we're always

being accurate. And I do want to assure the

Member there is work in place right now to

ensure there's a policy for the use of any

cameras, whether on current or future assets as

it may be required. And we'll be happy to take

the Member's suggestions to ensure that we

have abiding by whatever rules or laws

appropriate as they pertain to those cameras.

Thank you.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 565

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of

Infrastructure. Oral questions. Member from

Range Lake.

QUESTION 214-20(1):

MEDICAL TRAVEL POLICY

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, I was feeling ignored. Mr. Speaker, I'd

like to ask the Minister of Health and Social

Services about medical travel policy. So I spoke

of a terrible circumstance that happened to a

constituent of mine when they were sent to

Edmonton under emergent circumstances and

were incapacitated and very much on death's

door. And thankfully they've now recovered.

Their spouse was denied on their claim to go

down and provide care and support. So I'd like

to know why do we have -- why is it okay for a

spouse to travel on a scheduled trip but not

during a medical emergency when end of life

decisions may be required? Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Range Lake. Minister of Health and Social

Services.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, generally, clients who

are in the care of medical escorts are not

provided with -- or sorry, with medical escorts

are not provided with nonmedical escorts. So

that would be in the instances if somebody is

medevaced. Air ambulance and emergency

services are excluded under the NWT medical

travel Policy. But the department is aware

that -- and does acknowledge that there is an

emergency service policy that could include

escort criteria. Again, as I've just obtained this

department and I know we're going to go

through a fulsome review of our medical travel

and how we move people around, you know,

we know that this is another gap in the area;

however, when we are moving patients -- like,

the escort policy, the nonmedical escort policy,

does not pertain to when someone is

medevaced unless that person is a minor and

falls under the criteria that it is -- although there

is exceptional circumstances under our medical

travel policy that go to the department for an

exception request. But the NIHB does -- this is

the quirk that I found out, and so it causes an

imbalance and inequity in how services are

provided. NIHB beneficiaries may receive a

nonmedical escort supported when this kind of

situation happens, but those each are approved

through the northern region office right through

directly through NIHB. So that's separate from

the Northwest Territories medical travel policy.

And I know when we say medical travel policy,

everybody thinks that's just one area. But even

my 15 years, 18 years, even as an NIHB

navigator, becoming the Minister and trying to

get the fulsome picture of this has been piece

by piece and so this was a new thing that I kind

of realized today. So thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, I appreciate this is a mandate item as

well, to fix this problem, but, I mean, we

have -- when we hear stories of people who are

being asked to zoom in to their loved one who

is intubated at a hospital and make decisions

for them because that's the option instead of

flying them down, I don't know how that's

compassionate. So will the Minister specifically

review this set of circumstances where there

are people who cannot advocate for

themselves, who are in critical condition and

require a spouse or someone who can speak

with power of attorney or on their behalf to

make those decisions, will she review the policy

to make sure those people are covered by

medical travel? Thank you.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can review it, but we

do have the exception policy. So the role of the

health care practitioner is to make the

assessment, provide the recommendation for

an escort. That recommendation must be

explicit to the reason for a request. A lot of times

the request is care and compassion, and I get

that -- you know, if I could give everybody a

care and compassion escort, you know, I would

not be liked by my colleagues very much. You

know, because it's going to be -- like, the

amount of people that are travelling in the

Northwest Territories -- I think we provided a

report, and I can find that report and send it off

to Members. But I think we move about 40 to

almost 50,000 people a year in medical travel

and so if every one of those we were to give an

escort to, you know, it starts to -- it adds up. And

so -- but it's also the role of the physician who

is making the recommendation to be specific on

the needs of what that person is doing. Like the

Member said, and I won't speak to individual

cases, but they have to be very specific. Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well,

I'm not talking about every case, certainly not

every -- all 50,000 people we move. We're

talking about a narrow set of circumstances.

When people are in critical care conditions,

when they are incapacitated or sedated, they're

not able to make decisions for themselves, they

may be at end of life, can the Minister agree to

review the policy around those individuals who

require nonmedical escorts to be their

advocates when they're in that situation; can

she commit to that? Thank you.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have committed to it in

the business plan. Like I said, it is in the bigger

Page 566 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

picture. I understand the Member wants this

specific area but then the other Member wants

a specific area, and then if I go down the list and

throughout the next four years, every Member's

going to have their specific instance. So we

need to make sure that we have all -- compiled

all those instances and come out with a policy

that's fair and equitable for the Northwest

Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Health

and Social Services. Final supplementary.

Member from Range Lake.

MR. TESTART: Mr. Speaker, the story I told,

that's $6,000 out-of-pocket for a retired couple.

I have another constituent that's $7,000

out-of-pocket. People work paycheque to

paycheque in the Northwest Territories. They

can't afford these costs. Will the Minister take

action and commit to solving this problem?

There's a whole bunch of problems but this is a

very specific one affecting a small amount of

people in a very significant way; will she solve

this problem? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. I'm going to -- I have answered that

but what I'm going to say, it is not a specific

instance. I have -- since Minister, five months, I

have received numerous and numerous and

thousands and thousands of dollars that people

have spent on, you know -- like, myself, if I had

to fly out if my child was sick or my

mother-in-law was sick or my -- you know, my

family member was sick and I had to jump on a

plane and go and be with them, you know, I

would be out-of-pocket as well. But I do get

these BFs constantly and so this -- like I said, I

am looking at it. I know that there is an area that

there is a gap, but it will be part of the overall

review. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

QUESTION 215-20(1):

USE OF AGENCY NURSES

MR. TESTART: Mr. Speaker, I have questions

for the Minister of Health and Social Services.

Different topic.

Mr. Speaker, how many agency nurse

contracts have been utilized since 2021? Thank

you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Range Lake. Minister of Health and Social

Services.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't have that level of

detail but I know that the Member did have a

written question. I don't know if that -- I can't

recall if that information was in there, but I can

get back to the Member if we can compile that

data. Thanks.

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, I have -- in that question the Minister

responded to, I have the dollar amount spent

but not the actual individuals. So can the -- to

be clear, how many times have individual

agency nurses been brought in to Northwest

Territories health care facilities? Thank you.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since 2020, I think that

is when we started using agency nurses, I don't

have the number of the contracts and

that's -- the level of detail that is. What we are

doing is we're using nurses where they're not

going to shut down services. And, you know, I

hear that the Member -- this is something that,

you know, he's raised many times in this House

but then when you go out to the small

communities and they're shut down and the

services are -- we can't find a nurse, you know,

those are the communities that, you know, may

have to utilize a nurse. And so we can continue

to talk about how many and how many of this,

but at the end of the day, the care that

these -- the residents are getting, having a

nurse in the community -- you know, sometimes

we have to wait, you know, does this nurse

know the community? Well, the nurse knows

their job. So, you know, when we sit here and

we go back and forth about these numbers,

when right now we have five. We have five

nurses -- agency nurses keeping obstetrics

open in the Northwest Territories. And so we

can continue to have these discussions on the

floor but I am not going to jeopardize this

service in this community. And if it was in a

health centre, then we'd be medevacing

everybody out of that health centre to

Yellowknife or to Inuvik or to Fort -- you know,

this is -- that's the option. So I'll leave it at that,

Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Health

and Social Services. Colleagues, if you're

getting really into detail, maybe wish to put it as

a written question, so. Member from Range

Lake.

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well,

the Minister could tell me there are five right

now so I thought she'd be able to look back with

that recollection.

Mr. Speaker, we're going to keep asking

questions about agency nurses as long as

nurses who live and work here are upset about

it and have a right to raise these concerns with

their MLAs.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 567

Mr. Speaker, how many times have agency

nurses been used in small community health

centres? Thank you.

HON. LESA SEMMLER: I don't have that level

of detail. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, the reason I ask that is we're

here -- they're only used for obstetrics, they're

only used for these, like, hard to find units, we

don't want them to shut down. But the concern

is that we're going to lose health centres in

small communities. So is the Minister aware of

any circumstances right now where a small

community health centre is going to be staffed

with agency nurses?

HON. LESA SEMMLER: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Tlicho Service

Agency staffs theirs when -- when they're on

the verge of having no nursing and I know that,

from my understanding -- and this is why I know

that there's five, is because everybody time I

come to the House I always ask my

department, so how many agency nurses we

have? Because I know this is going to be a

question here. And so -- but I do know that, you

know, the Tlicho Service Agency does utilize

them to keep their health centres open and they

have, you know, vacancies over the summer

and so they may have to utilize those if they

cannot find nurses to fill those vacancies.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of Health

and Social Services. Oral questions. Member

from Yellowknife Centre.

QUESTION 216-20(1):

GUARDIANS OF THE LAND PROGRAM

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For

something completely different, we'll -- like the

Maytag repair man, we'll go to questions to the

Minister of ECC I guess. He doesn't get a lot of

questions. We'll give him a chance today.

So, Mr. Speaker, my question for him today is

about the Guardians of the Land. Could he

describe what the program is, where it is, and

how much it's being supported in the Northwest

Territories when he describes what it is. Thank

you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member. That was

kind of three questions. I will turn to the Minister

of ECC.

HON. JAY MACDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. And thank you to the Member for the

questions. The Guardian program is a

collaborative program that is -- I can't speak

specifically to the locations at this time, but I

would certainly be happy to provide that

information to the Member. The Guardian

program supports collaborative efforts between

the Department of ECC and local Indigenous

organizations and governments to work

together in the monitoring of activities and

wildlife on the landscape. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The

Minister said he would provide the locations. I'll

accept that offer.

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister speak to the

specific mandate the territorial government has

to support the Guardians throughout the

Northwest Territories? Thank you.

HON. JAY MACDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Guardian program is

part of Our Lands Our Future document that is

the guiding document that identifies protected

areas within the NWT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not

specific in the context of this current budget,

although that sort of is the answer, but I'm not

questioning the current budget, but what is the

program funded with? Where do we get our

funding and how much do we fund on this?

HON. JAY MACDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. I don't have that specifically open in

my business plan document at the time, but I

would be more than willing to provide the

Member with a briefing. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of ECC.

Final supplementary. Member from Yellowknife

Centre.

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, I'm curious if the Minister can answer

the question with respect to how does a

community or region access this opportunity to

create a Guardian program? Is there an

application, is it an interest of community, is it

an interest of a region, etcetera? So can the

Minister explain what process to establish them

and support them? Thank you.

HON. JAY MACDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Guardian programs

are associated with protected areas within

Northwest Territories, and those programs are

collaboratively engaged with local Indigenous

governments. I don't currently have the

specifics of how a community would go about

applying for that, but I'd be more than happy to

provide that information to the Member. Thank

you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister of ECC.

Colleagues, our time is up for oral questions.

Oral questions. Written questions. Returns to

Page 568 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

written questions. Replies to the

Commissioner's address. Petitions. Reports of

committees on the review of bills.

Colleagues, we would like to have a brief break

as the time is been over two hours and our

translators need to stretch their legs and get a

little refreshment. So we'll have a brief

adjournment.

---SHORT RECESS

MR. SPEAKER: Reports of standing and

special committees. Member from Inuvik Boot

Lake.

Reports of Standing and Special

Committees

COMMITTEE REPORT 1-20(1): STANDING

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY AND

OVERSIGHT REPORT ON THE 2024-2025

MAIN ESTIMATES,

ADOPTED

MR. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, the Standing Committee on

Accountability and Oversight is pleased to

provide its report on the 2024-2025 Main

Estimates.

Mr. Speaker, the Standing Committee on

Accountability and Oversight, the committee of

course, of the 20th Legislative Assembly of the

Northwest Territories is charged with the

responsibility of providing oversight over the

business and budget operations of the

Government of the Northwest Territories.

The purpose of this report, Mr. Speaker, is

twofold:

1. To provide publicly the position of the

committee in their review of the

proposed 2024-2025 Main Estimates

tabled by the Government of the

Northwest Territories on May 24th,

2024; and, Mr. Speaker,

2. To identify key policy initiatives and

goals that the Government should

look to advance through their

business plans.

The mandate of the committee, which is

comprised of all 11 Regular Members, is to

provide oversight and accountability into

government budgets and operations. We are

tasked to lead negotiations of the proposed

main estimates to ensure that outcomes can be

achieved and accountability is maximized.

Mr. Speaker, the committee wishes to note that

this is the first time that a report on main

estimates has been brought into the House.

The intent of this report is to draw public

attention to what has historically occurred

behind closed doors and for the public to better

understand how a finalized operations budget

occurs through the consensus system.

Regular Members form the majority of the

House and it is our role to hold the government

to account and ensure that the budget and

policy direction of the government are reflective

of our shared priorities. Providing the

Committees position on the Governments

budget and policy direction is intended to bring

forward conversations that regularly occur

through in-camera discussions between

Executive Council and Regular Members. Mr.

Speaker, the committee will present our

positions according to the agreed upon

priorities of the 20th Assembly. It is through this

new process that additional transparency and

accountability can be brought forward for all

Members of this House.

Mr. Speaker, housing remains a top priority of

the 20th Assembly. The committee was

disappointed to see that the 2024-2025 Main

Estimates reflected a decrease in total

operations funding for Housing Northwest

Territories by $13 million. This decrease does

not accurately reflect how this Assembly has

chosen its priorities. Mr. Speaker, housing is a

key concern for all regions and communities

throughout the Northwest Territories. Although

an operations budget is before the committee,

we will be seeking a commitment to provide

$200 million in capital funding for Housing

Northwest Territories over the life of the 20th

Assembly.

The committee is also seeking a commitment

for Housing Northwest Territories and Health

and Social Services to provide budgeted

initiatives that enhance assisted living options

for people with disabilities and supportive living

options for vulnerable populations. Only by

supporting non-profit organizations and

Indigenous governments in the development of

housing options for these vulnerable residents

can we see positive changes. Another gap on

the housing spectrum could be addressed by

cooperative housing Initiatives. The committee

is asking that the government provide

resident-led efforts to protect homes and

neighbourhoods by creating incentives and for

investment in housing cooperatives.

Mr. Speaker, ultimately the committee believes

there is a need to support our municipalities by

transferring land to be used for additional

opportunities for housing. Too many of our

municipalities, Mr. Speaker, face barriers in

meeting the current legislated requirements

that would allow lands to be transferred to their

authority. The committee is seeking a

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 569

commitment for the development of a

legislative proposal from the Department of

Environment and Climate Change that

streamlines the current challenges posed to

municipalities in their abilities to access lands,

including the current requirements that a

community must develop controls to manage

the land, create a community plan, and that

parcels must be surveyed prior to transfer. The

current requirements far exceed the capacity of

municipalities to access land within their

boundaries and change is needed.

Mr. Speaker, the committee acknowledges the

need to build capacity amongst all residents of

the Northwest Territories to support a strong

economic foundation. This begins with a call for

the Department of Education, Culture and

Employment to explicitly include an action in

their business plan to improve outcomes in

basic literacy and numeracy for JK to 12

Students. The importance of supporting the

Aurora College transformation captures the

bookend of this need as the committee has a

strong desire to see investment into the

transformation to ensure it can be successful in

our effort to build our labour market capacity.

Mr. Speaker, the committee is also concerned

with the proposed reductions of $1.1 million to

the Small Community Employment Program.

The Small Community Employment Program is

a key program that creates employment within

our communities so that they can support

economic activity in a sustainable manner. This

program should be restored to its previous

funding level and include new parameters that

ensure all funding is provided to small

communities as opposed to regional centers.

Mr. Speaker, the same sentiment can be made

for the Community Access Program. The

committee feels that this program, which

provides financial contributions towards the

construction or maintenance of access roads,

trails, docks and wharfs, should be reinstated to

$1.5 million. Although there may be

implementation challenges with the current

scope of the program, this funding is key to

support community initiatives such as ice

roads. Moreover, this funding should be

expanded towards feasibility studies that

enable communities to determine how they

approach infrastructure needs.

Mr. Speaker, the committee remains committed

to reducing our reliance on carbon intensive

fuels. We are calling for the publication of a plan

that outlines how the utility regulator, the three

electrical utilities, the territorial government,

and interested Indigenous governments, will

work together to develop a short, medium, and

long-term roadmap. This should include

appropriate planning, regulatory, and policy

tools to enable the transformation of the

Northwest Territories electrical system over the

coming decades in alignment with climate goals

and building greater energy independence in

the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, the committee acknowledges that

there is a need for a regulatory streamlining.

Calling for the 2020 Environmental Audit to be

prioritized, funded, and implemented will

support our goal in providing a strong regulatory

regime that gives our resources sector the

certainty that they require.

Mr. Speaker, the committee acknowledges that

improving the accessibility and quality of health

care is a multifaceted and complex issue. The

committee also acknowledges that frontline

health care staff are key to improving the

working conditions and culture of our health

care system. We are fortunate to have so many

hard working and dedicated staff that can

support innovative solutions for our health care

system. Strategically advancing the territorial

health care workforce plan and establishing an

Office of Practitioner Experience are all tangible

actions that can support our current system. Mr.

Speaker, the committee is calling on the

Department of Health and Social Services to

look internally through job evaluation and

labour market incentives to create a more

attractive health care workplace. These actions

will help support the retention and recruitment

of health care professionals.

Mr. Speaker, reducing critical funding for

innovative programs such as the midwifery

expansion program or including income testing

for extended health benefits is not the way to

improve access to health care. The committee

is strongly advocating to reinstate the $990,000

for the midwifery program and the creation of

an action plan that allows midwives to support

communities throughout the Northwest

Territories and remove the income testing from

extended health care benefits. There is a key

opportunity to expand the Family Medicine

Residency Program from two to four residents

per year by the end of this Assembly to build

local health care capacity. The committee will

advocate for these actions to be advanced to

support the priority and our health care system.

Mr. Speaker, the committee has concerns that

the non-governmental organization (NGOs)

stabilization fund remains at only $700,000 and

believes that this should be increased to $1

million annually to better support NGOs and the

critical work they do. Further, to support stability

and acknowledge the vital role of the NGO

sector, funding should be awarded using

multi-year contributions to NGOs. The territorial

government has received concrete

recommendations on how to better support

Page 570 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

NGOs. Therefore, the committee is requesting

funding for the implementation of the

"Strengthening the Non-Profit and Charitable

Sector External Advisory Committee Final

Report".

Mr. Speaker, the committee has heard the

government's position that municipalities have

a responsibility in emergency management;

however, we have not yet seen corresponding

financial resources from the territorial

government to support emergency

preparedness and public safety efforts for

municipalities that will build their capacity. The

committee is seeking a commitment to adopt a

more equitable funding formula that equalizes

the gap for communities across the Northwest

Territories and offers more meaningful support

for emergency management preparedness.

Mr. Speaker, to support safe communities and

residents, we need to ensure that communities

have appropriate access to RCMP services and

that legislation, such as the Residential

Tenancies Act, is modernized, and that our

legal services, such as the Office of the

Children's Lawyer, can continue to be

supported.

To support the priorities of the 20th Assembly,

the committee has put forward a combination

policy direction and budgetary requests for

Executive Council. We know that through

engagement between the committee and

Executive Council, we can build on the

successes of previous Assemblies by showing

collaboration and consensus decision-making

that can succeed.

Mr. Speaker, the committee has summarized

its recommendations on policy commitments

and budgetary changes in response to the

Government of the Northwest Territories

proposed 2024-2025 Main Estimates by

department, Mr. Speaker.

Education, Culture and Employment:

• Provide an update to the business

plan targets that highlights the need to

improve literacy and numeracy

outcomes amongst JK to 12 students;

• Restore the Small Community

Employment Program Fund to its

2023-2024 funding levels while

changing the program to ensure only

small communities, and not regional

centres, can access the funding pot;

• Aurora College transformation: Mr.

Speaker,.

• Reinstate the $500,000 to fund the

Centre for Learning, Teaching, and

Innovation and provide an additional

$1 million to fund the Aurora College

transition team.

Environment and Climate Change:

• Create new legislation in the life of this

Assembly that will support the transfer

of Commissioner’s land within

municipalities, excluding lands

currently under the interim land

withdrawal and Indigenous lands,

resources, and self-government

agreements. This legislation should

streamline the current challenges

posed to municipalities to access

lands, including the current

requirements that a community must

develop controls to manage the land,

create a community plan, and that

parcels must be surveyed prior to

transfer;

• A commitment to establish in the

business plan how the department will

prioritize, action, and implement

changes recommended in the 2020

Environmental Audit, recognizing that

most recommendations are likely to

carry into the 2025 audit.

Executive and Indigenous Affairs:

• A commitment to realign all measures

within the business plan to match the

measures laid out in the

Homelessness Strategy;

• Establish Services NWT with offices in

all regional centres and Yellowknife by

2027-2028 while also working to

enhance the services offered by

government service officers to build

more single-window access points for

government services throughout the

territory;

• Restructure and reissue the Request

For Proposals for the OneGov project

to give opportunities for northern

contractors to advance this work;

• Provide for a costed implementation

plan of the Strengthening the

Non-Profit and Charitable Sector

External Advisory Committee final

report.

Finance:

Mr. Speaker,

• Ensure a revenue neutral carbon

pricing regime which itemizes how

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 571

revenues are then reallocated through

public reporting;

• Create a strategy to reduce TSC

chargebacks by 10 percent across the

Government of the Northwest

Territories; and

• Create a plan that allows for a Tlicho

administrative region for operations

and capital planning purposes,

removing it from the North Slave

region.

Health and Social Services:

• Remove income testing for the new

extended health benefits;

• Restore the proposed $990,000

reduction to the Department of Health

and Social Services and the Northwest

Territories Health and Social Services

Authority regarding midwifery; and

further, develop a model for traveling

midwives that ultimately reduces the

costs of medical travel for residents;

• A commitment to increase the Medical

Residency Program from two residents

to four residents by 2027-2028;

• Complete new internal job evaluations

for all frontline health care staff;

• Create a new Labour Market

Supplement Program for frontline staff;

• Waive the current practice standards

for foreign credentials for internationally

educated nurses;

• Provide a plan to phase out private

health care agency nurses by

2026-2027;

• Establish clear targets for Indigenous

health care training and recruitment of

staff. Mr. Speaker,

• Examine and estimate the costs to

introduce an Office of Practitioner

Experience in the Northwest Territories

health care system;

• Commitment to expand on the existing

Government of the Northwest

Territories Physician Workforce Plan by

creating an overall health care

workforce plan that contains:

o An updated territorial model of

physician services that is formalized

and funded;

o An effective Territorial Primary Care

Model based on equitable access and

continuity; and

o A re-evaluation of the health systems

leadership model.

• Provide a proposal for the creation of a

dialysis unit and CT scan equipment and

operations at the Inuvik Hospital;

• Provide options and costing for a mobile

x-ray machine for small communities;

• An increase to support not only transitional

housing for individuals in recovery of

addictions but to also work with Housing

Northwest Territories to increase assisted

living options for adults with disabilities.

Housing NWT:

Mr. Speaker,

• A commitment to invest $200 million in the

capital plans for housing until fiscal year

2028-2029;

• Provide cost estimates to the business plan

commitment that pledges to help NGOs

stabilize their funding, particularly for those

running supportive living facilities to keep

vulnerable populations housed;

• Encourage better upkeep of public housing

units by supporting resident-led collective

efforts to protect their homes and

neighbourhoods through the creation of

incentives for housing cooperatives.

Industry Tourism and Investment:

• Provide an update to the Business Plan that

sets goals to increase the value of income,

employment and dollars spent on all film

productions taking place in the NWT.

Infrastructure:

• Restore the Community Access Program

funding to 2023-2024 levels. Furthermore,

ensure that this program can be made to be

more flexible to support feasibility studies

such as the creation of ice roads;

• Provide a costed plan that outlines how the

utility regulator, the three electrical utilities,

the Government of the Northwest Territories

and interested Indigenous governments, will

work together to develop a short, medium,

and long-term roadmap with appropriate

planning, regulatory, and policy tools to

enable the transformation of the Northwest

Territories electricity system over the

coming decades in alignment with climate

Page 572 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

goals and building greater energy

independence in the Northwest Territories;

• Restore the manager, Enterprise Records

Management position at $113,000;

• Restore the Electric Bike Rebate of

$10,000;

• Restore the Community Government

Retrofits Program of $190,000 to support

energy audits and energy retrofits of

community government facilities.

Justice:

• Advance the currently proposed timeline

for changes to the Access to Information

and Protection of Privacy Act with a

legislative proposal by the winter sitting of

2025;

• Provide a legislative proposal that aims to

modernize the Residential Tenancies Act

by the winter sitting of 2025;

• Restore the Office of the Children's Lawyer

by eliminating the reduction of $200,000;

and

• Provide a plan to allow for a joint RCMP

detachment for Gameti and Wekweeti.

Municipal and Community Affairs:

• It has been highlighted that the municipal

funding gap under the current formula

cannot be closed or reduced without

substantial investment. The committee is

seeking a commitment to adopt a more

equitable funding formula that equalizes

the gap for communities across the

Northwest Territories. This funding

formula should fund models and new

contributions which capture:

o Operations and Maintenance;

o Water and Waste;

o Capital;

o New contributions for Municipal

Emergency Preparedness and Public

Safety; and,

o The ability to implement ground

ambulance services to interested

communities.

• Increase the annual Non-Governmental

Stabilization Fund from $700,000 to $1

million dollars. Further to this increase,

ensure that all NGO funding and

contribution agreements are multi-year

agreements moving forward, and that the

government works to address inflationary

pressures on NGOs through these

agreements.

This concludes the Standing Committee on

Accountability and Oversight’s report on the

2024-2025 Main Estimates. Members

acknowledge through ongoing dialogue with

the Executive Council we will work together to

advance and finalize a budget that can better

support the residents of the Northwest

Territories.

I'd like to thank AOC and their staff for their

collaborative efforts creating this document.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member from

Inuvik Boot Lake. Reports on standing and

special committees.

Let's go back to Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

MR. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I

move that the AOC committee report be

adopted, report (audio).

MR. SPEAKER: Member from Range Lake.

Motion's in order. To the motion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

in favour? Opposed? Abstentions? Motion has

passed.

---Carried

Reports of standing and special committees.

Tabling of documents. Notices of motion.

Motions. Notices of motion for the first reading

of bills. First reading of bills. Second reading of

bills.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

bills and other matters, Minister's Statement

4-20(1), Minister's Statement 5-20(1),

Minister's Statement 17-20(1), Minister's

Statement 24-20(1), Tabled Document

93-20(1), with Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

in the chair.

Consideration in Committee of the

Whole of Bills and Other Matters

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): I'll call

committee to order. What is the wish of the

committee? I'll go to the Member from Inuvik

Boot Lake.

MR. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr.

Chair, the committee would like to consider

Tabled Document number 093-20(1) tabled on

May 24th, 2024, and with the departments of

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 573

EIA, Justice, and Health and Social Services for

consideration.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Does the committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

We'll proceed with the first item. Committee, we

have agreed to consider Tabled Document

93-20(1), Main Estimates 2024-2025. We will

now consider the Department of Executive and

Indigenous Affairs.

Minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs,

please proceed with your opening remarks.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm here to present the Department of Executive

and Indigenous Affairs' main estimates for the

fiscal year 2024-2025. Overall, the

department's estimates propose an increase of

$1.405 million, or 6.1 percent, over the Main

Estimates 2023-2024. These estimates support

the mandate objectives, while continuing to

meet the Government of the Northwest

Territories' fiscal objectives to prioritize

responsible and strategic spending.

Highlights of the proposed estimates include:

• Transfer of Integrated Service Delivery

Program of $854,000 from Department of

Justice;.

• Continuation of the implementation of the

national action plan to end gender-based

violence funding of $2,187,000;

• Women in Leadership $101,000; and.

• Fiscal sustainability reductions of

$838,000.

These estimates support the mandate

objectives for the Department while continuing

to meet the GNWT fiscal sustainability strategy

objectives to ensure the fiscal health and

financial future of the GNWT. This concludes

my opening remarks. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Does the Minister of the Executive and

Indigenous Affairs wish to bring a witness into

the House?

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Yes, I do.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Does the

committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witness

into the Chamber.

Would the Minister introduce his witnesses.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. With me, I

have John MacDonald, the deputy minister of

Executive and Indigenous Affairs; and, Tram

Do, director, shared corporate services, with

the Department of Executive and Indigenous

Affairs. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you. I

will now open the floor for general comments on

the Department of executive and Indigenous

affairs. Do any Members have general

comments? Seeing no more general

comments, does the committee agree to

proceed? Oh, I'm sorry, I'm going to go to the

Member from Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I just

wanted to start in my general comments by

pointing out some of the important actions

contained in the Homelessness Strategy, which

is now going to be led by Executive and

Indigenous Affairs. And I know that there's

many actions identified in the business plans

around coordinating efforts. And certainly it's

not all about the money. It's partly about

policies and coordination around

homelessness. But I just wanted to emphasize

here that it's also about the money when it

comes to combatting homelessness. So I

wanted to go over some of the specific

recommendations in the Homelessness

Strategy that was released at the very end of

the last Assembly, and my hope was that it

would really be carried forward into this

Assembly and looked at carefully and

implemented carefully. So I wanted to go over

some of the recommendations there that do

require additional funding.

One of the recommendations was around

increasing transitional housing and supportive

housing. So we need to actually increase the

number of facilities that we have to meet the

goals that we're setting up around functional

zero homelessness in each community. And

the strategy talks about first determining the

need and feasibility for supportive living

facilities and then increasing GNWT funding

available for those programs to improve

community-driven solutions.

Another recommendation was around ensuring

shelter services have appropriate resources

that actually reflect the needs of those users.

And so one step is to first establish standards

for shelters, but then also ensuring there's

adequate money there to meet those

standards. And I know certainly the non-profits

Page 574 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

in Yellowknife have to make ends meet with

sort of shoestring budgets and, you know, very

few staff that they can afford to pay for and

sometimes -- you know, to meet shelter

standards, we should really be increasing

staffing ratios and just increasing the resources

that we're providing in order to make sure that

those shelter environments are safe, both for

users and for staff.

Another recommendation was around

establishing long-term funding options to

improve the sustainability of those non-profits

that are operating shelters.

Another recommendation in the Homelessness

Strategy that needs to be implemented is to add

additional navigator positions. So the integrated

case management program has been a pilot for

quite a few years, and it's been shown to be

successful, but we've been slow actually

expanding those services outside of

Yellowknife. And the strategy really

recommends doing that, and we don't currently

see resources allocated to that.

It also recommends creating peer support roles

for those service users, those people accessing

shelters who would benefit from having those

supports and mentoring from fellow community

members but perhaps don't need the intensive

supports that a navigator would provide.

So those are just a few of the recommendations

that do require actual resources that I wanted

to get that out there before we start because I

think it's easy to say that we're looking at the

strategy because we're going to coordinate, but

I think we also need to see the money.

I also wanted to reemphasize again that

we -- another key initiative of the Department of

EIA that's outlined in the business plan under,

you know, the main departmental highlights, is

around stabilizing non-profits and helping to

sustain them.

So, again, I just wanted to highlight that we

should actually be looking at the

recommendations of the report that came out in

the last Assembly called Strengthening the

Nonprofit and Charitable Sector. There was an

external advisory committee that provided

some really important recommendations that

need to be implemented. And, again, we don't

see real numbers and funding in this budget to

make that happen.

Finally, in terms of my general comments, I just

wanted to comment on the role of

communications. We see a large budget under

EIA for corporate communications as well as

Cabinet communications. And according to my

calculations, those two together add up to

about $2.7 million and out of the total EIA

budget, which is about $24 million, that's about

11 percent of the budget, which is significant,

especially for a department that is doing some

really important -- has some really important

roles there. So to have 11 percent of the budget

taken up by communications, I think we need to

think about that.

So my understanding was that after devolution,

communications budgets within Executive and

Indigenous Affairs started to go up significantly

because there was a desire to centralize

communications more within the Executive and

Indigenous Affairs department. And so that

resulted in additional communications positions

being established within corporate

communications after devolution. And I think

perhaps the intention, or the thought behind it,

was to similarly take away some

communications positions within each of the

departments, but I'm not sure that that has

actually happened. So what we've seen is a

general growth of communications staff

everywhere. And many GNWT staff have

expressed their frustrations to me that they feel

there's an imbalance that's developed. Perhaps

too much emphasis and control over how staff

can communicate with each other and with the

public due to all of these communications staff,

but not enough emphasis on developing the

quality content in those communications and

supporting staff to actually develop the content

that is actually helpful and responsive to public

needs. So I just wanted to offer that general

reflection on the role of corporate

communications. And I'll delve a little bit more

into it when we go through the line by line.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Does the Minister want to respond? Okay, we'll

just continue on. Is there any other Members

that want to add general comments? I'm going

to go to the Member from Range Lake.

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr.

Chair, I think that this is an odd Minister or

department to kind of look at because it's very

much a political department, and it houses the

Premier and Cabinet Minister offices, and then

a bunch of kind of not really statutory but, like,

things that don't really fit in anywhere else. So I

appreciate -- and Indigenous relations, which,

of course, is crucial to how things operate. So

it's very much -- it is an executive department.

But one thing I think is missing is more of a

focus on that executive function. The business

plans and the budget as well and how the

department's structured set Executive and

Indigenous Affairs up to be a coordinating body.

And I think it needs to be more than that. I think

it needs to be the central body that sends

direction throughout the public service and to

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 575

other departments as well. And although that

is -- you know, that is -- it's somewhat of a

function, I still feel that it's more of an emphasis

on coordination than direction. And one thing

we're missing is to have a dedicated unit within

this department to ensure results and delivery.

And I've spoken about this before. I still feel

quite strongly that this is -- this would be an

innovative function of executive that would

greatly improve how we get the mandate and

business plans implemented, completed, and

developed in a meaningful and timely way and

give support to that function as well to ensure

we're not just collating departmental actions

into one document but we're producing a plan

with one vision with unity, with purpose, and

that that's getting -- and that departments are

on track to deliver on that, because at the end

of the day, if we are setting political goals here

we want to be -- we want to ensure that they get

delivered on the ground and in our communities

in particular, and we don't really have a

mechanism to do that other than the individual

Ministers who are then kind of working

collaboratively. And that's fine, but as I've said

before, we don't have that much time to be

successful. Four years goes by very quickly. So

the more tools we can give to the Cabinet to be

successful, I think we'll get better results. And I

think centralizing more of that authority within

the Premier's office, in Executive and

Indigenous Affairs, is the right step to take. And

honestly, I think we could even consider moving

the financial management board here as well

and for them to play more of a centralized

corporate function under the direction and

supervision of the Secretariat to Cabinet and

the Premier as well. Finance can still set fiscal

policy but those kind of corporate controls,

guidance around stat -- like, Crown

corporations and divisions and contribution

policies and ensuring, most importantly, that

departments are sticking to their budgets and

being audited correctly and all the things we

look at in public accounts as being conducted.

So, yeah, I -- none of that's in here beyond what

they already do. I just think there could be more

strength put towards these kind of core

functions and give the Premier more of an

ability to be the Premier. Because regardless of

how the position actually functions, the

expectations from, I think, this House and the

public, is that the Premier has more of a

leadership role to play than just chair meetings

and being a spokesperson for government. So

I would very much like to see that in budgets

going forward as things are refined.

I also think the homelessness should probably

be handed off to the housing minister rather

than stay here. I appreciate that there's many

facets to this, but there's many facets to lots of

areas of public policy. You know, like, if we're

talking about crime reduction and -- crime

reduction, we have to talk about drugs and

addiction, especially in the Northwest

Territories. Like, you can't -- you know, we

wouldn't say let's move to the Premier's office

because it's multi-facetted. We could do that for

everything and only have one Minister because

everything touches on everything. So I think

homelessness -- I appreciate the Premier's

predecessor took a vested interest in being

hands on on this file and that's, I think, why the

move was made, but I think we have a Minister

of housing who's very -- could be very

competently take on this responsibility and

provide more focus and dedication to

implementing it because, of course, the

Premier has a lot on his plate. So I would

recommend moving that function elsewhere.

And, yeah, I think -- and I think the focus on

Indigenous -- working with Indigenous

governments, we heard today from the Member

for Monfwi that that is bearing fruit, from her

perspective, and we've heard that from others

as well. And that's good that we're on the right

foot and we're moving forward in that direction.

But I think the other big piece is land rights

agreements and implementing modern treaties.

And that means shaking up how we do

business in the negotiation sections -- or

negotiation divisions of Indigenous Affairs. We

waited a very long time. People are still waiting.

And all that uncertainty and doubt that is

created from not having stability with respect to

Indigenous rights in the Northwest Territories is

something that really needs to be corrected. So

I hope that this is more than just keeping the

negotiation tables -- the lights on in the

negotiation rooms but actually bringing forward

new innovative ideas and mandates to see

success at those tables and to work effectively

with the federal and Indigenous partners to

complete modern treaties and land claim

negotiations by the end of this term. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you

for your general comments. The next Member I

have on my list here now is the Member from

the Sahtu. 43ds

MR. McNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. My

comments here is to the Department of EIA.

Taking a lead role in representing this institution

or this mandate or this government outside of

this government in building relations, I totally

agree with the mandate to engage in a number

of ways, including building trust and

relationships with the other land title

organizations out there. For a number of

reasons, we have the conventions allowing you

to do so. And I see a need for improvement, and

I'm quite satisfied with the business plan to

resolve those and expedite solutions in

Page 576 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

particular. The only government authority we

have in 33 communities is the Deline Got'ine

government. So when I go there for my visit, I

see huge potential and I see huge growth in a

number of areas, including child development

in the local schools. And adding to their growth,

because of the status of self-government which

allows them to approach both levels of

government, both the territorial government

and the federal government. In some other

areas, whether it's settled claim area, and over

60 percent of our territory is in settlement title.

And the unsettled areas seem to be further

behind than the showcase of growth given to

the powers underneath self-government status

to Deline, the Deline Got'ine government. So

therefore, the other candidate within the Sahtu

is Colville Lake. There's a few organizations

that have signed AIPs, and if we can have

control of the growth that could be expedited for

the conclusion of self-government agreements

within this mandate, I think it's a good fit to have

the Premier taking a role and addressing

leadership in those communities to accomplish

what we've seen already that has a proven

track record and the accomplishments by the

Deline Got'ine government.

So the Deline Got'ine government has set a

model for community development growth,

jurisdictional growth, and future growth within

their capacity utilizing their strengths given to

them by their status. So if it's such a good

model -- and from what I see the business plan

is going to help us get there, so we got three

and a half years to get there. As I always said

in the private sector, somebody has a

legal -- the aggression to conclude your goals

and objectives. In this case, it's our mandate.

And when I review the business plan, I can only

imagine there would be results within three and

a half years, or even sooner in some of those

cases, because the next candidate that I know

of that is very close to concluding the

self-government status is Colville Lake. So if we

achieve success in that conclusion of 90

percent, we only got 10 percent left. So I think

with the proper leadership underneath this

department, we can accomplish that 20 percent

remaining in our term of this Assembly. And

they would be the next candidate to capitalize

on independence and growth as did the Deline

Got'ine government.

So I raise those points there to help emphasize

the interpretation of what I see within this

business plan to cover the term of this

Assembly so that we can have outcomes 36

months from now. That's all I got for this chapter

there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you

for your general comments. Next on the list I

have is Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

MR. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah,

general comments, I mean, you know, when I

look through the business plan for EIA, I look

specifically at the directorate as the Indigenous

Intergovernmental Affairs and the Executive

Council offices and, you know, there's much

work to be done. And I'm appreciative of the

work that's been done to date with working with

Indigenous governments. I appreciate that the

Premier and Cabinet continue that mantra, and

I think it's great. But it's important to know that

there's much work being done by the

Indigenous governments, and there's much

work to be done. And, you know, they have

been -- and particularly this -- and I can speak

to my region, of course. Particularly in my

region with our two settled land claims, they are

essentially going guns-a-blazing. They're

building homes. They're doing major

infrastructure projects. They're moving ahead.

So, you know, so when I look at our

responsibility as EIA and to continue to do the

work that the Premier's committed to doing, and

has shown that is committed to doing, we need

to make sure we have the right people in those

places. You know, it all can't be based in

Yellowknife. We need senior people, whether

that's regional directors or whether that's

ADMs, you know, we need people in the

regions where this work is taking place by the

Indigenous governments to be our voice there

as well. And when I say our voice, this

government's voice. And I think that it's not only

the perception that things are centralized, it's

not only that -- you know, it's important that we

have people in the regions where that work's

being done to be able liaise, again, with the

Executive Council offices and making sure that

work being done and voices are being heard

from the Indigenous governments. And then, of

course, that also ties into the departments in the

regions as well because, I mean, those

positions, again, having someone in there that

can tie together, whether it's housing and health

and social services and infrastructure and tie

them together in the regions as a one-stop

place you can go if you're an Indigenous

government or even if you're just an individual

in that region. So I think it's key, and I would

hope that that is what's being looked at when I

look to the business plan to make sure that

there are staff in those positions and that we

have, you know, reliable, senior people in the

communities working with EIA. Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Any further Members that want to add to

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 577

general comments? Okay, I don't see anybody

else putting their hand up. I'll continue on.

Seeing no more general comments, does the

committee agree to proceed to the details

contained in the tabled documents?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

We have committee agree. Committee, we will

defer the department summary and review the

estimates by activity summary, beginning with

Cabinet support starting on page 127 with

information items on page 129. Are there any

questions? Page 129. Okay, I'm going to go to

the Member from Frame Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just

wondering why we're not starting on page, I

believe, 123?

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Go back to the Member. Before we'll go back to

that item once we get through the key items.

Right now we're going to start off on page 127

with information on page 129. Go back to the

Member from --

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair, appreciate

that clarification, okay. So my first question is

actually just related to the business plan, and I

think this is the appropriate place to ask the

question, page 72 of the business plan. I know

it was mentioned in the speech by the AOC

chair there, but I just wanted to kind of express

my support for having the -- strengthening the

NGO and charitable sector report included and

spoken to in the business plan. I would like to

see us prioritize implementation of that report,

cost out implementation of the report. So I'm

just wondering if the Premier can respond to

that.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'll go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you very much.

The NGO sector is more part of EIA than ever

given that EIA is now responsible for integrated

service delivery. With that comes the

homelessness file. The reason that integrated

services and homelessness is in EIA is

because when it was in Justice, and I was the

justice Minister, I found that the Minister had no

authority to actually integrate services, that the

program with integrated case management was

just a program of the Department of Justice.

And so to the comments earlier about why

homelessness is in EIA, it is beside integrating

service as the approach we're taking is we

start -- we're starting with one issue as opposed

to trying to do everything all at once. And so, of

course, with that comes a lot of work with

NGOs. And so that is going to be core to the

work that we do over the next four years. I've

had -- or three and a half years. I've had

conversations with the deputy minister already

about approaches to ensuring that our NGO

partners do have the stability they need to

address their files. Maybe I can hand it to the

deputy minister for some comments on this

because it is an area that we have discussed at

length. Thank you chair.

MR. JOHN MacDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Chair. As the Premier said, we are very aware

that the NGO sector needs support. Previously,

the Member spoke about the report that was

completed in the last government. We have that

in hand, and we're looking at that actively and

certainly through the lens of integrated service

delivery and addressing the Homelessness

Strategy. We're looking at ways in which we

can support NGOs, particularly in that

subgroup, but also the NGO sector at large.

One of the things that we're looking to do

initially is to look at how we can break down

some longstanding barriers, particularly when it

comes to homelessness, information sharing,

things of that nature, and trying to improve how

some of the coordinated access moves

forward. So we see that as a real precondition

to being able to actually get to the real work of

supporting our shared clients. Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you. I

want to go back to the Member from Frame

Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So my next

comment, question, is, again, related to an item

in the business plan, page 83. There's some

discussion there on focusing on crime

prevention. And this is going to relate back to

comments that I have on Justice as well, but I'd

like to speak to it here also. I just note the lack

of targets under this business plan item. And I

do think that this is very closely related with

Justice. And I like that they are looking to

identify barriers to service, address root causes

of crime, certainly focusing on crime prevention

through collaborative efforts at early

intervention, but I would just note that the lack

of targets attached to this goal makes me think

that the department still has some work to do in

terms of identifying what it is they're trying to

accomplish here. So I would appreciate some

commentary on this and maybe some -- maybe

targets are coming, but yeah, if the Premier or

the department could comment on that one.

Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Okay. Thank

you, I'll move it over to the Minister of EIA.

Page 578 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I apologize, I was just getting my business plan

sent over to me. If the Member could repeat the

item he was referencing. Thank you. I

apologize.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): I'll go to the

Member from Frame Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's page

83 of the business plan. The item is focus on

crime prevention, identify barriers. I'll just note

that there's no targets attached to that business

plan item. And, yeah, the comment was, you

know, if we don't have targets identified, it's a

bit hard to tell kind of what the government is

trying to achieve there. So I just wanted the

Minister or department to kind of expand upon

when they're looking to achieve here. And I

would just emphasize that I think this is an

important one and is closely tied to some of the

goals that Justice has set. Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And I appreciate the Member's concerns about

the lack of target. This document and the

mandate were prepared almost simultaneously

and so we were including items underneath

each of the topics, and they aren't necessarily

all fully fleshed out yet. But the idea behind this

here is around integrating the services and

ensuring that someone who needs access to

services is able to get those services when they

need them. Often, the root cause of a lot of

crime is addictions issues, and so if we can

support people in a way that will actually assist

them, you know, get them out of that lifestyle or

the criminal justice system, then that is what we

want to do. So there's no targets here right now.

I'm happy to work with the Members to develop

some targets. But that's where we're coming

from with this. Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Frame

Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah no, I

appreciate that. And I would just kind of

encourage the department to continue to work

towards better defining what it is they're looking

to achieve here and would emphasize that, you

know, if our focus is going to be on crime

prevention, you know, like I said yesterday in

my kind of higher level comments, you know,

there's a lot to it that does not involve simply

policing, work that's done in the jails. Most of it

takes place -- the work that really makes a

difference takes place long before people enter

the criminal justice system. So I'm excited to

see this in here but want to see the targets the

department is working towards. I hope it's

focused and that the targets we're looking for

are outcome-oriented. So those are my

comments on this page for now. Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister from EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. I appreciate

those comments. I look forward to the Members

on this. Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to the Member from Frame

Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you. That's all my

comments at this time, Mr. Chair, on this page.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Any other Members? I got the Member from the

Sahtu.

MR. McNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. My

question is related to page 80 in the business

plan here on UNDRIP. I know we inherited

the -- or this Assembly inherited the last

Assembly's legislation on UNDRIP, which I

totally agree. If it's a piece of legislation that is

going to improve on the rights of Indigenous

people, we do, to some extent, have those

recognized rights in the Sahtu and other

settlement areas. If there's any adding on

powers with the existing powers we have from

a modern treaty, I would say there's always

room for improvement. So when I look at this,

and I think of the legislation passed by the last

Assembly, maybe the Premier could give us a

little explanation on how this department, with

your lead, will have achieved targets. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you. I

want to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. The

UNDRIP Implementation Act that was passed

in the last government, as the Member said, we

are legislatively required to co-develop an

action plan to achieve the goals of UNDRIP with

Indigenous governments. And so we are in the

process of doing that right now. And that will

help guide future investments that will be

reflected in future budgets. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you. I

want to go back to the Member from Sahtu.

MR. McNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's

the only question I had at this point in time on

that particular page there. Mahsi.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): I'm going to

go to the Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 579

MR. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr.

Chair, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask

this question, but I'm sure I'll be corrected if it's

not. I guess you could look at page 72 in the

business plan or you could look at page 126 in

the main estimates but, again, I talked a little

earlier about having the right people in the right

place doing the right work. Can the department

speak to what it's doing with the regional

director position that's been vacant for four

years in Inuvik and where that sits now?

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I'm going to go to

the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. We do have

a plan for that position. It has not been reduced.

And we're just holding off pending the approval

of this budget. We don't know how things are

going to go with the negotiations with Members,

whether or not we're going to need to find

additional money and where we might need to

find that money. So I look forward to staffing

that position once we are through this process,

if we make it through successfully. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I'll go back to the

Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.

MR. RODGERS: Thank you. No, and I'm

certainly happy to hear that, and I'm happy to

hear that it hasn't been part of the reductions.

Again, I can't stress enough how important that

position is for our region and I'm sure as

positions in other regions are as well, and just

want to reiterate that that -- something I hear on

a regular basis, certainly from constituents, and

from other government departments and

Indigenous governments as well. So I look

forward to -- again, this thing has been -- it's

been vacant for a while, and it's unfortunate. I'm

disappointed it hasn't been filled prior to this

point, but I'm happy to hear that the department

will be moving forward on that. Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Is there any other Members? Okay, I'm going to

go back to the Member from Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So my

question specifically related to Cabinet support

here. Is how much money is allocated for

Cabinet communications? I don't see a specific

line item there. I wondered if the Minister could

clarify.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. We are just

looking for that information right now. We

should have it -- it's under Executive Council

offices I'm being told. Thank you.

MS. MORGAN: (audio).

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Okay. We'll

just hang tough here until we can find it. We're

good? I'll go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. So I believe

that's in the next section so we can address that

once we get there. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you. I

want to go back to the Member from

Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll wait

until we get to that section to expand.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): is there any

further questions from Members before I move

on? Okay, thank you. I'm going to move on to

the next -- no further questions, please turn to

page 128. The Executive and Indigenous

Affairs, Cabinet support, operations

expenditures summary, 2024-2025 Main

Statements, $2,260,000. Does the committee

agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Moving on to the corporate communications

beginning on page 130 with information items

on page 132. Are there any questions? Yes, I'm

going to go to the Member -- sorry, I just want

to make sure I get this right -- Great Slave.

MS. REID: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So in EIA's

business plan under departmental highlights

page 87, there is a piece around the

communications functional review. So the

description of this review is almost identical to

the last one done in 2014, which was known as

the likely report. And I'm going to argue here

today that, you know, the reason that

communications doesn't get better is no one

really wants to fully implement the

recommendations that are in that report, and

departments want to continue to do what they

are doing, namely, preferring to keep control of

their message. And so we continue to ask, we

continue to review, we continue to ask, you

know, will it get better, hoping we'll get different

answers that we like. So I'm really going to urge

the Minister and his department to scrap this

and save yourself some money.

To the Member from Yellowknife North's points,

you know, it is $2.7 million or 11 percent of the

budget. The reason that communications

started to centralize didn't fully realize the

recommendations of the 2014 report is

because it was asked to centralize and sort of

control that messaging, one government, one

voice. So that's why you've seen the general

growth of comm staff in the central agency. I

Page 580 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

would argue it's clarity of decision-making, not

communications that are the -- is the real

problem. Our communicators in the

government are world class. I consider a lot of

them very awesome and excellent people doing

the best they can with what they have. But,

yeah, I'll let the Minister speak to that. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you for that, those

comments. You know, comms, there's never

enough communications, there's never enough

information out there, and even when it's out

there, people can't find it. So this is a -- it's been

a no-win situation I found in my time here.

There were discussions about centralizing in

the last government. As the Minister of a

department, a line department as they're called,

I was not supportive of that given that there's

the bread and butter communications that

departments have to do. And, you know, I was

a student when I was first elected and so I know

that ECE did a lot of communications on SFA,

and they were very targeted to me as a student,

and I really appreciated that. And so I wanted

to make sure that the departments were still

able to do that. But we have needed to improve

our -- I guess our political communications to

get the word out there. And I appreciate the

Member's comments about world class

communicators because, you know, some of

the people I work with, I know that they

are -- that they're good at their job. So I will have

a discussion with the department about the

scope of this review. And I will leave it at that.

Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to the Member from Great

Slave.

MS. REID: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I'd be

happy to talk to the Minister more fulsomely

about this with suggestions. I hope he comes to

committee and chats with us about it. But I

really, really, really stress that, you know, in the

scoping of how you want to go out on an RFP

for this that you really take a really careful look

at that report, talk to your communicators, find

out what's working first before you spend a

whole heck ton of money and time on

something that will probably give you the same

results. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Okay, thank

you. I'm going to continue on. I'm going to go to

Member from Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So just

to build on the comments which I -- I very much

appreciate from Member for Great Slave, going

back to the last communications functional

review, which I understand was done around

2014, 2015, can the Minister explain whether

any of the recommendations from the last

review were actually implemented?

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. So I

understand that some of the recommendations

were implemented, but the report was ten years

ago and I don't have a good handle on what's

happened in the last ten years in relation to that

report. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to the Member from

Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair.

Next I wanted -- I want to talk about the OneGov

project, which is listed in the business plans as

one of the key highlights of this department.

Where is the budget for OneGov; where does it

fall? I'm assuming it might fall under corporate

communications, but perhaps the Minister can

clarify and also tell us what is the budget for

OneGov both for 2024-2025 and if there's any

budget plan for future years. Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. I believe it's

in the procurement process. So we don't

necessarily put the budget out before it has

been approved. We want to make sure that the

contractors are not bidding to the budget.

They're bidding to the project. But the project

itself is to create a website that is essentially a

one window to the Government of the

Northwest Territories. Right now, we have a

number of different websites. We have a

number of -- and the platform that's being used

is actually quite old and not robust enough for

today's modern internet. So just like physical

infrastructure needs to be replaced,

technological infrastructure needs to be

replaced as well. And at some point in the

future, if not now, it will not be functional and will

have to be replaced. There are many, many

orphaned web pages. I come across them

myself where information's clearly outdated. It's

very difficult to manage it, and so the idea is to

create something that is much more user

friendly for the users as well as for the people

on the other end who are actually putting the

content up. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to Yellowknife North

Member.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 581

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I'm

going to ask this again because I didn't get

clarification. Does the government know what

the cost of OneGov is at least for 2024-2025;

have we budgeted for it? And if so, where is it

in this budget?

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. Yes, there is

a budget for it. I believe the budget has been

shared with Members, and if not I can do that.

And it is under corporate communications. But

I would like to hand it to the director for more

information. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'll go to the director.

MS. TRAM DO: Yes, the budget for OneGov

has been established. It will be a cost shared

budget amongst all nine departments. The

budget consists of website development,

website hosting, project manager. There's an

amount for 2024-2025 of $830,000. For

2025-2026, $530,000. And we're assuming an

ongoing hosting fee after that of $90,000. And

it is a cost shared amongst nine departments.

Therefore, it is not a separate capital

expenditure item for this budget.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to the Member from

Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Do those

numbers include internal staff costs of

implementing this project, or is this all just costs

that would go towards a contractor? Thank you,

Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

MS. TRAM DO: So basically we have one

position -- one project manager. They're

designated for the project.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): I'll get the

director to repeat that so it's clear. Thank you.

MS. TRAM DO: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The

project cost includes a project manager. Thank

you, Mr. Chair. And it's included within the

budget of -- overall budget cost.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to the Member from

Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the

Minister tell us -- well, just confirm whether the

RFP process has closed, and if so, were any

proposals received from NWT-based

businesses on this contract? Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: The proposal -- the

process is not yet closed, no. It's midstream.

Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to the Member from

Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I

just -- I have some comments. I have heard

from NWT-based businesses who looked at

this RFP and strongly doubted that any

NWT-based contractors would be able to bid on

it given how it's designed. And so I understand

that the goal of making websites more

accessible is a good goal, but I believe that we

could do this differently in a way that makes it

more accessible to NWT-based contractors,

that it could perhaps be done in stages, or

designed differently to allow local businesses to

work on -- especially a contract of this size.

We're looking at probably over a million dollars

here. I would also question the urgency of this

initiative at this time when we're kind of

scrimping and saving in all different

departments, especially when we're looking at

a project that, as far as I can tell, is unlikely to

benefit our NWT economy in any meaningful

way. I think I would also like to emphasize I

would like to see us start by looking at the

communications functional review that we're

doing and finding ways to make sure that we're

improving the content of our communications

before we focus on sort of the how or the

methods that, you know, we -- how our

websites link to each other or not or, you know,

how you access the information. I'd like to have

us focus first on what information we're actually

able to access or members of the public. I think

those are all my comments now. Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member for Monfwi.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Thank you.

I know that, you know, there's not a major huge

cuts across EIA but within the Cabinet's

support, can the Minister explain or briefly

explain what this Public Utility Board is because

I think -- well, the budget stayed the same for

last fiscal year, and -- actually, it went down a

bit. So you explain what this Public Utility Board

is? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

Page 582 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Public Utilities Board is the energy

regulator in the Northwest Territories. So if NT

Power Corporation wants to increase its prices,

it has to make an application to the Public

Utilities Board. We have a Minister responsible

for the Public Utilities Board, and that is Minister

McKay. It is arm's length from government as it

is -- it regulates, you know, government entities.

And the budget has remained the same, I

believe, for many years. I briefly held this

portfolio about four years ago, and the budget

is relatively similar to what it was then. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member for Monfwi.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Okay,

thank you. This Public Utility Board, because

it's NTPC or energy regulators, I thought, you

know, how come it's not under infrastructure or,

you know, ECC because it deals with -- that's

more within their department, so how come it's

under EIA? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. And it's a

political decision, I suppose, where it lands,

under which department. I would say because

it is most dissimilar to EIA, it's more appropriate

to be in EIA as opposed to something like

infrastructure where that Minister is often also

the Minister of the power corporation. And so it

is to give some separation. I will say that I've

often struggled with where the different

regulators are located. I think it was an ad hoc

approach over the years, and where they sit

now is where they sit. When we get to Justice,

we'll see that OROGO is in there as well, which

really no rhyme or reason why it is there other

than to ensure that it is not in a department that

it would be -- that is too closely related. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go go back to the Member from

Monfwi.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: And for

compensation and benefits, okay, so that's a

number of staff, that's the staff that we have

here. Like, 89 in headquarters. So that

represents that number, the budget? North

Slave is four -- I mean, I'm just trying -- those

are -- the one below is GSO.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: And all

these jobs are -- besides GSO, is there any

other jobs that's allocated in small

communities? Like, I know we have GSO. I

know Tlicho community have four GSO. I just

wanted to know if there was any other jobs, a

high level, like -- you know, not regional -- well,

hopefully regional. You know, like I just wanted

to know if there were other jobs that were

allocated in Tlicho region. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. So in this

division, I don't believe so. But we have -- or

sorry, I guess the PUB is -- we do have

someone in the PUB in Hay River. So that's one

example. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Monfwi.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Okay.

Since we're still on this -- well, no -- regional

allocations, Cabinet support, so community

allocation, so headquarter regional offices.

Where are these regional offices? Because it

says six, is that in -- like, I know there's nothing

in Tlicho because we're still part of the North

Slave. So there's a South Slave. There's

Dehcho. Sahtu. Are these jobs allocated in

these regions?

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. So I believe

we're still -- we're in Cabinet support right now?

That's where I sort of lost track of where things

are going there.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: we're still

on (audio)

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): I just want to

clarify that we're still on corporate

communication. And so that's where -- we're on

page 132. I'll continue on. Do you have any

further questions on corporate

communications? Thank you.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: We're still

on the community -- we're still on Cabinet

support, because I'm looking at community

allocation on page 129. So there's the

headquarters. There's ten. But the active

position here for the -- it's different, that's what

I'm referring to.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: (audio).

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

We just concluded Cabinet supports over on

communication, corporate communications.

Okay, I think next Member, I think Member from

the Sahtu.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 583

MR. McNEELY: Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. I

too wanted to add to my colleague, Inuvik Boot

Lake, is the fact that if we're going to build

relationships with our Indigenous community,

that position as regional director as we

previously mentioned last week -- I believe it

was -- that position covers 13 out of 33

communities and represents the government in

three settled land claim jurisdictions. So it just

adds to the importance of the role and the

functions of the role and, in particular,

representing this government in those

jurisdictions. So I just emphasize the need, and,

for the record, I support the quicker the better

we can fill this regional director position to help

bridge the gap on communications and

relationships and partnerships and dialogue for

improvement to the 20th Assembly. Mahsi.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'll go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Sure, I won't comment. I

believe that's in the previous section so I'll

just -- I don't want to -- the puck drops in about

an hour so I don't want to take up too much time

with going back. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Okay, thank

you. Any further questions? Okay, don't see no

further questions. I'll continue on.

Executive and Indigenous Affairs, corporate

communications, operations expenditure

summary, 2024-2025 Main Estimates,

$1,417,000. Does the committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Moving on to directorate beginning on page 133

with information items on page 135 to 137. Are

there any questions? I'm going to go to the

Member for Frame Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do have

questions on this one, again related to the

business plan, which contains all the juicy

information, page 72 in this case. So there's a

couple items in there with relation to a

negotiating self-government and other

Indigenous rights agreements. And so the first

question I'll ask on that is just the actions to

support the mandate commitment, is EIA

working with departments who will review the

GNWT principles and interests to explore

possible updates? You know, I just -- I would

note to the Premier that it seems at face value

as a bit of an underwhelming commitment. It

doesn't seem like a strong commitment to kind

of get these agreements done. So I was just

wanting to -- if the Premier or department could

kind of speak to this item and what they are

looking to achieve with it and what their goals

are for the term of this Assembly with relation to

self-government and Indigenous rights

agreements. Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So

I think we're skipping ahead a couple sections

this time, but I will say that in terms of the

negotiations when it comes to the budget, I

think that we can do what we need to do within

the budget. I've been meeting with the

negotiators. I've been talking to the

departments. I've been expressing my views on

how we need to proceed. And I've been

meeting with Indigenous governments. And the

department will be bringing forward options to

try and get by some of these roadblocks on

some of these negotiations. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to the Member from Frame

Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And, yeah,

the Premier's right. I just realized that I am

asking questions related to a page that's

coming up so I'll keep those questions for that

time. I don't have questions on this specific

page. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): All right,

thank you. Is there any further questions from

Members? Seeing none. Oh, I'm going to -- I

got Member from the Dehcho.

MRS. YAKELEYA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The

funding for the Women's Initiatives and Native

Women's Association and Status of Women

Council, these -- they're all funded like for

three -- they get multi-year funding; right? Or is

it just one-year funding at a time? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Multi-year funding.

Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Dehcho.

MRS. YAKELEYA: Thank you. That's all I

wanted to know. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Is there any

further questions? I'm going to go to the

Member from Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just had

one question under this. The gender-based

violence fund -- and I'm not sure -- I know that

the national action plan to end gender-based

violence has funding, and it's sprinkled in a

couple places throughout this budget, but I'll

attack about what's here. I'm not -- I'm

Page 584 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

wondering if the gender-based violence fund,

which provides $125,000 per community or

project, is that fully subscribed? And perhaps

the Minister could comment -- it looks like last

year in this line item, on page 135, there's $1.68

million that was allocated last fiscal year, and

this fiscal year, $1.648 million. Can the Minister

talk about whether all of that money was

distributed, was it fully subscribed, or are we

leaving money on the table when it comes to

gender-based violence initiatives.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. I'd like

to -- through you, Mr. Chair, I would like to hand

it to the director.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the director.

MS. TRAM DO: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So the

$1,648,000 for national action to end the

gender-based violence, $200,000 of that is for

internal salaries and benefits, and the

remainder is to be given out in grants and

contributions. Also to note with that, $630,000

of that amount goes to NWT Housing as well.

So out of the 1.648, $630,000 goes to housing,

and then the remainder goes to grants and

contributions based on applications to the

program, and it is distributed that way.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife

North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And so

for last year for 2023-2024, can the Minister

clarify whether or not all of the money that was

allocated toward grants and contributions was

actually allocated to deserving organizations?

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: I'd like to hand it to the

director.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'll turn it over to the director.

MS. TRAM DO: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So the

start of the program was mid year, and we also

had the evacuation and the election, so hence

not all of the budgeted allocations were spent.

For 2023-2024, we are carrying a surplus. The

surplus is to be spent by September 30th, and

we're hopeful to have all of the allocations from

the surplus amounts completed by then. Thank

you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife

North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's

good to know. I just want us to do everything we

can to make sure that -- there's tons of work to

be done out there and tons of organizations

doing this kind of work, so I just want to make

sure that the dots are being connected and

we're getting all this money out the door. Thank

you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Any further questions? Okay, I'm going to

continue on. No further questions.

Please turn to page 134. The Executive and

Indigenous Affairs, directorate, operations

expenditure summary, 2024-2025 Main

Estimates, $9,457,000. Does the committee

agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Moving on to the council's office beginning on

page 138 with information item on page 140.

Are there any questions?

Seeing no questions. I'll continue on. Oh, sorry.

Member from the Dehcho.

MRS. YAKELEYA: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Looking back at directorate -- or when we go

back and we look at all the staff that's in the

Premier's office and executive and Indigenous

affairs office, the organizational chart and

account structural chart. I have people asking

me why is the department so heavy on -- like,

top heavy, and can some of those

positions -- like, do they really need all of those

positions in that office? Or -- and can some of

that money be used in -- well, they're just saying

it's top heavy. And that's what I wanted to say,

it's top heavy and we could use money from

those positions in other programs that we need

money in our communities for. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. So in this

activity that we're discussing, Executive Council

offices, there's the Ministers' offices and there's

the Premier's offices. I would say that I could

use a couple more Ministers to distribute the

workload. So it could even get a little more top

heavy in this area. But, you know, that's a

constant criticism of government, that it's top

heavy. We always hear it. But I have to say that

in this area here, I think it's probably a little thin.

Thank you.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 585

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from the Dehcho.

MRS. YAKELEYA: Thank you. That's all I have

to say for that. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Before I continue on, Members, the Speaker

has advised that he wishes to re-enter the

Chamber to put committee into extended hours.

I will ask the Minister to return to his seat.

Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses

out of the chambers. Members, I will suspend

Committee of the Whole.

---SHORT RECESS

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, colleagues. I was

a bad Speaker, and I left you guys without

authorization to stay extended hours. So, I

know, bad me.

By the authority given to me as Speaker under

Rule 2.2(4), I hereby authorize the House to sit

beyond the daily hours of adjournment to

consider the business of the House.

And I will turn it back to the Member from Tu

Nedhe-Wiilideh, back to the chair.

---SHORT RECESS

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you. I

will continue on. Members, I will now call

Committee of the Whole back to order. Minister,

please return to the witness table, and

sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses

into the Chamber.

Members, we will resume with the Executive

Council offices in the Department of Executive

and Indigenous Affairs. And do any Members

have any further questions? Any further

questions from Members? Seeing no hands, I'll

continue on.

Executive and Indigenous Affairs, Executive

Council office, operations expenditure

summary, 2024-2025 Main Estimates,

$3,951,000. Does the committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Moving on to the Indigenous and

Intergovernmental Affairs on page 141 with

information items on page 143 and 144. Are

there any questions? Yes, I'm going to go to the

Member from Great Slave.

MS. REID: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is more

of, again, a business plan question. On page

22 -- no, that's not true. That's not the

entire -- 89 of the business plan, it speaks to

EIA's federal engagement approach. I'm

curious what work intergovernmental affairs

has done thus far on the federal engagement

approach for the 20th Assembly and what

timelines we're looking at to see that here in this

House? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. There won't

be a document; there won't be a plan to be

tabled in the House. We are developing an

approach to working with the federal

government, but we have too many strategies,

too many frameworks that we spend a lot of

time developing but not enough time

implementing, and so we are implementing an

approach to federal engagement. And we have

the mandate done, hopefully the budget will be

passed soon, and hopefully I'll be heading to

Ottawa right after this so that we can begin

those engagements. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Great Slave.

MS. REID: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the

Minister speak to whether his Cabinet will be

using the Arctic and Northern Policy

Framework again in this Assembly? Thank you,

Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Yes, thank you. So the

Arctic and Northern Policy Framework, it's

actually a federal document. We think it's a

good document. We just need some

implementation from the federal government.

There are pieces here and there, but we really

want to see them invest in the spirit of that

document. Perhaps I can get the deputy

minister to speak some more on this. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the deputy minister.

MR. JOHN MacDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Chair. As the Minister mentioned, the Arctic and

Northern Policy Framework is a federal

strategic policy document. To date, we've been

waiting to see some financial contributions to

bring that document to life. So it does come up

on just about every -- during every meeting that

territorial government officials have with their

federal counterparts. So I think it's fair to say

that it will continue to have life during our

discussions in the coming years.

And with respect to the approach that the

Premier was discussing, we really are trying to

employ disciplined approach focus and activate

the public service to work effectively with their

federal counterparts to prepare for political

Page 586 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

conversations that can be successful. So I think

that's a basic principle of what we're looking to

achieve over the next three and a half years.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to the Member from Great

Slave.

MS. REID: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And, really,

more a comment than a question -- well,

actually, I'll put a question in there just for kicks.

That's good to hear. But fundamentally I think it

would give some comfort and understanding on

this side of the House of how you wish to

strategize generally. If there is not a document

to be tabled, perhaps a briefing could be

arranged with AOC. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. I would be

more than happy to brief the committee. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'll move to Member for Great Slave.

MS. REID: I'm all right for now, thank you, Mr.

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

The next Member on the list I have on the list is

from the Member from Frame Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, so

I'm going to go back to the questions I was

asking earlier as the Premier rightfully pointed

out I was in the wrong section. I'm still in the

process of familiarizing myself with the great

machine that is our government.

So, yeah, back to that question, I think I'd

repose it. I'm just looking for kind of some

explanation as to what the government's goals

are for self-government and Indigenous rights

agreements over the term of this Assembly.

You know, publishing updates to the GNWT

principles and interests just does not seem like

a very ambitious goal, and so I'm kind of looking

to the Premier to indicate how we are

challenging the status quote with this item.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So

it's -- you know, in the last government the

mandate commitments were to settle land

claims. Well, that's just what we're supposed to

be doing. And so the way to do that is look at

the negotiations, figure out what the issues are,

figure out where the GNWT perhaps needs to

change its position or align itself with an

Indigenous government to work together to

help change Canada's position, and then make

those changes in the negotiating mandates.

And that may be uncomfortable. That may be a

departure from the way thing have been done

in the past. But we need to push the envelope

because we heard comments earlier about the

money that is brought into the territory, the

capacity that is built when claims are settled.

That really is I think the key to supporting the

regions and bringing wealth into the territory

and spreading it out around the territory. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Frame

Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I do

appreciate the Premier providing that clarity

because I think it'll help the public kind of better

understand what we're trying to achieve. And

maybe if we just push a little bit, I mean, does

the Premier kind of have any updates for

committee on whether there's any indication

that we will see a settled claim within the term

of this Assembly? Are we moving forward, or

are things currently stalled? I'm kind of curious

to hear some more comment on that.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. And there

are some promising tables. Hope to see some

things settled during this government. I don't

really want to get into specifics. As they are in

negotiations, I don't want to poison the well as

they say, but -- and the thing about negotiations

that I've learned is sometimes you start a term

and the ones you're furthest ahead on are the

ones you're the furthest behind on at the end of

the term. And it's things that are completely out

of our control. An Indigenous government might

want to just take some more time at that

particular point in the process, and we have to

sit there and wait, which is what needs to

happen. So while I want to move as quickly as

we can on these files, that being said we're only

one of three parties at the table. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Frame

Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And that is

understandable, so I won't continue to push on

that one. But just moving one item down on the

same page in the business plan, exploring

options to support economic reconciliation.

Certainly, I was -- I had the privilege of sitting in

on the Indigenous economic forum that

occurred in April, and I was very excited by

what I was hearing there. And I just note that

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 587

the -- again, like, speaking to measures and

targets, the measures that we have here are a

number of funding agreements. And I don't

think we've really identified a target in terms of

what are we trying to achieve with those funding

agreements, because we could have a lot of

funding agreements and not really be achieving

the aims that we're looking to. So I guess I have

two questions on this one.

One is whether the Council of Leaders was

approached and spoken to about this specific

item and given the opportunity to provide some

opinion as to what we should be trying to

achieve together and whether we

have -- whether the department has any

comments on sort of development of targets

recognizing what we discussed earlier that, you

know, I do recognize the business plans were

put together quite quickly, but I would like to

hear from the department as to kind of what

they're working in terms of fleshing out this

idea. Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. When we

talk about economic reconciliation, we need to

approach that from a number of fronts. We are

working on an Indigenous procurement policy.

We do have agreements such as with the

economic agreement with the Tlicho -- the

exact name escapes me at this moment. We

are also working on the UNDRIP

Implementation Act action plan. And I expect

that there would be economic aspects identified

in there. We are working with the Council of

Leaders and the economy has been flagged as

one of the major issues that the Indigenous

governments want to address this term. And so

I'm excited about that. And so at the upcoming

meeting, we're going to be having some

in-depth discussions about that and how we

can work together going forward. There's a

recognition across the board by GNWT, by

Indigenous governments, by the general public

that we are in a transition phase right now with

the diamond mines maturing and that we need

to ensure that we have opportunities in the

future. And so like I always say, we can't do that

alone, we need to work with the Indigenous

governments, and that's the plan. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Frame

Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll leave

with a comment, and that is just that, you know,

I see the business plan as a live document. I

know that there's going to be updates brought

to it every year. And so I just hope that Cabinet

and the Premier can kind of work with the

Council of Leaders, identify some targets that

we're going to work towards so we can be

focused in implementation of our priorities. And

I'll just keep hammering back on that focus item

we -- if we're not focused, if we're trying to do

everything, I think it's going to be much harder

to achieve our goals. So that's my comments

for now, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much on this

section.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Is there any further questions? I'm going to go

to the Member from the Sahtu.

MR. McNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I too

want to add and support the engagements both

at the federal level and the territorial level with

the other Indigenous organizations. An

economic reconciliation is a common drive.

One standard chapter within these claims that

could be allowed to build on so you have a

common ground of engagement to economic

reconciliation would be that permitted activities

within these different land claims, which allows

expenditure of capital. And it could be done

through a co-partnership arrangement. So that

door can be opened to do a number of things

for economic reconciliation. It could allow the

claimant corporations to meet this government

halfway through various initiatives. So I would

suggest that the department familiarize

themselves with the chapter on permitted

activities. So that's more of a recommendation

or a suggestion.

My question is related to the Ottawa office. And

what are the intentions of utilizing the office in

Ottawa to its fullest potential and help mitigate

or bridge the gap with federal engagements

with this organization as well as joint

cooperative organizations with the claimant

corporations? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And so there is an office in Ottawa that is leased

by the GNWT. There has been a position

associated with that office. That is proposed as

a reduction, that position. But we have a

number of years left on that lease. And so we

are looking at how to best utilize that space, and

there are discussions happening. I know that

the space is used by Indigenous governments,

by negotiators, by Regular Members. I used the

office myself as a Regular Member. So we

definitely see the value in it. We want to be able

to bring federal Ministers into our space in

Ottawa, take them out of their element a little

bit. So there are plans for that office. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from the Sahtu.

Page 588 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

MR. McNEELY: Nothing further. Thank you,

Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Okay, thank

you. It's 5 to six. If there's no further questions,

I'm going to go to the Member from Monfwi.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: In your

business plan on page 88, it says here

integrated service delivery and it says here the

description of work. But I just wanted to ask

that -- in the business plan, page 89 -- or 88,

can the Minister explain what this integrated

service delivery model is?

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Sure, thank you. So I'm

not sure where this is contained in this

document but -- relative to where we are now,

but integrated service delivery is a way of doing

business where you design and deliver

programs and services for the person. You

don't design them in a way that is most efficient

or, rather, most convenient for government.

You design it with the convenience of the

person in mind so that they can actually access

all of the services they need easily. And so we

are looking at various ways of doing that.

Initially, there was a thought that we would just

start integrating services across government.

Through looking at the issue, working with

outside contractors and working internally, it

was determined the best way to go was to focus

on an issue first. So that's why we are focusing

on homelessness first, to work to integrate

services for that population. We're also looking

at creating sites around the territory, likely in

regional centres where we're going to be

co-locating services as well. So that's the next

step. So these are some of the things that we're

doing under integrated service delivery. And

the reason it was brought into the Premier's

office is because we need someone -- we need

the authority to force departments to integrate

their services. When I was the Minister of ECE

and the Minister of Justice, there was even

issues getting ECE and Justice to work

together. So that is why that is in here. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Monfwi.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Yes,

because it says here on the other side

implementation of NWT homelessness,

anti-poverty, alcohol strategies, and

coordination of GNWT strategies associated

with food security, etcetera. So you said

regional. So it was -- for Tlicho region, we have

TCSA. I'm just wondering, like, are they going

to -- if they do that with the regional director, are

some of the regions going to be getting these

positions, or they will be -- some of these will be

transferred to the regions to regional office?

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. So in

Indigenous and intergovernmental affairs, the

division we're currently discussing in the main

estimates, there won't be any movement. What

we're talking about with integrated service

delivery is co-locating GNWT services. So it

could be housing and income assistance and

social services. But those are existing

positions; it's just a matter of getting them

physically close to each other, ensuring there's

proper agreements in place so that they can

share information amongst themselves. And

there are opportunities to work with Indigenous

governments as well. I know that TCSA has

been a leader in integrating services over the

years, and so I think it would be a perfect fit.

And I did raise this at the bilateral as an

opportunity. We haven't had really in-depth

discussions yet. But somewhere like Behchoko

would be a great place to try this out. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Monfwi.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Yeah,

that's what -- that's what -- yeah, I agree with

you. It's like a commitment. There, so that's

good to know. I like that, so. But no, because

it's good, you know, because I feel when you

look at all the GNWT departments, there's lots

of duplications, you know, lots of -- it's just that

it's -- there's a lot of duplication within

government services and I think this is a good

way of reducing some because, you know, like

there's -- like, we just talked about the utility

boards. There's ECC and Infrastructure and

maybe ITI. And so there is overlapping of lots

of services so I think this will help to reduce, and

it's going to help with serving the people,

especially in the small communities or in the

regions. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Yes, thank

you. That's just taken as a comment. I think

what I'll do is if there's no further questions from

anybody, I'm just going to stop there. Okay, I'll

go to -- before, give me one minute here.

The next one here is -- no further questions.

Please turn to page 142, the Executive and

Indigenous Affairs, Indigenous and

intergovernmental affairs, operations

expenditure summary, 2024-2025 Main

Estimates, $7,168,000. Does the committee

agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 589

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

We'll stop there, and we'll take a short recess.

And I'll ring the bell and we'll continue on. Thank

you.

---SHORT RECESS

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Okay,

everybody to their seats. Order. Cousin. Thank

you, we will continue on. We just took a short

break. I'm going to continue on.

There are additional information items from

pages 145 to 147. Are there any questions?

Any questions? Don't see any hands up. Okay,

I'll continue on.

Thank you, Members, please return to the

department summary found on page 123 and

revenue summary information item on page

124. Are there any questions? I'm going to go

to the Member from Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. My

question is where in this department's budget

might we find money for the implementation of

the Homelessness Strategy? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I want to go to the

Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You can find it in this budget and budgets all

across the GNWT because it is a

government-wide approach. But the deputy

minister can provide more specifics. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Yes, thank

you. I'm going to go to the director -- or sorry,

deputy minister.

MR. JOHN MacDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Chair. Integrated service delivery dollars were

transferred from Department of Justice to

Executive and Indigenous Affairs. They're

currently located in the directorate activity.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife

North.

MS. MORGAN: Okay, thank you for that. Are

you able to tell us how much money is allocated

under the directorate for integrated service

delivery?

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: So with the transfer of

integrated case management unit from the

Department of Justice, along came $854,000

with that. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife

North.

MS. MORGAN: Okay, thank you for that. And

is there any money, either as part of that or

somewhere else, for action items to be

implemented as part of the Homelessness

Strategy that have to do with, you know, better

supporting shelters, to provide wraparound

services? So aside from, you know, staffing

positions within the government, are there

dollars allocated within that that could be grants

or contributions to organizations that are

delivering services to -- that relate to

homelessness? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. So when we

integrate services, we integrate them from all

departments, and so the money that the

Member's referring to exists in health's budget,

in housing's budget. Perhaps the deputy

minister can provide a bit more detail. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the deputy minister.

MR. JOHN MacDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Chair. And maybe just to build on the Premier's

remarks, much of what integrated service

delivery will involve, at least initially, is working

to make better use of existing resources across

government. But I would say that, to the

Member's question, this also touches on federal

engagement. It touches on the federal budget

2024. There were significant announcements

related to housing and included within that are

opportunities for funding related specifically for

homelessness. As is typically the case, when

the federal government does make

announcements for budget, it takes them a few

months to have policy clarity that they can

share with partners. So we're looking to work

closely with our federal counterparts over the

next couple of months to see what we can do to

bring funding into the territory for some of the

purposes that the Member has mentioned.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife

North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So that

is encouraging news. Can the Minister tell us

when we go to the federal government to try to

negotiate more money for homelessness, are

we also looking -- so in addition to looking for

capital dollars for new shelters or living

facilities, are we looking for operational dollars

to support existing or new facilities that might

Page 590 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

support street involved populations? Thank

you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister of EIA.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. I will hand it

over to the deputy minister. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): I'll go over to

the deputy minister.

MR. JOHN MacDONALD: Thank you, Mr.

Chair. The short answer is, yes, we know that

there are a number of federal programs that

were announced. The policy parameters, some

application-based, others different methods of

disbursement of funds, some funding for

Indigenous governments, some for provincial,

territorial governments, some for NGOs. So

there really is a bit of work to do to explore what

that looks like. We are watching closely as the

federal government negotiates with other

provinces already around how to make that

funding easier to access. So we're looking to

embark on those conversations essentially as

soon as this legislative session is concluded.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife

North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I

definitely look forward to continuing these

conversations and ensuring that we continue to

actually implement the recommendations in the

Homelessness Strategy. That's it for now.

Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Any further questions, Members? I don't see

any hands up. I'm going to continue on.

Thank you, Members. Please return to now to

the department summary found on page

123 -- oh, hang on. Sorry, seeing no further

questions, committee, I will now call the

department summary, Executive and

Indigenous Affairs, operations expenditures,

total department of 2024-2025 Main Estimates,

of $24,253,000. Does the committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Okay, I'm

going to go back to the Member from

Yellowknife North.

COMMITTEE MOTION 5-20(1):

TABLED DOCUMENT 93-20(1): MAIN

ESTIMATES 2024-2025, DEFERRAL OF

DEPARTMENT – EXECUTIVE AND

INDIGENOUS AFFAIRS,

CARRIED

MS. MORGAN: Mr. Chair, I move that this

committee defer further consideration of the

main estimates for the Department of Executive

and Indigenous Affairs at this time. Thank you,

Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): The motion

is in order. To the motion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Question

has been called. All those in favour? All those

opposed? The motion is carried. Consideration

of the Department of Executive and Indigenous

Affairs, operations expenditures, 2024-2025

Main Estimates, total department, is deferred.

Thank you.

---Carried

Thank you, Minister, and thank you to the

witnesses for appearing before us.

Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses

from the Chamber. Committee, we will now

move onto the next department.

Okay, thank you, we'll continue on. Committee,

we have agreed to consider Tabled Document

93-20(1), Main Estimates 2024-2025. We will

now consider the Department of Justice.

Minister of Justice, please proceed with your

opening remarks.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm here to present the 2024-2025 Main

Estimates for the Department of Justice.

Overall, the Department's estimates propose

an increase of $3.8 million, or 2.6 percent, over

the 2023-2024 Main Estimates. These

estimates support the mandate objectives for

the department while continuing to meet the

GNWT's fiscal objectives to prioritize

responsible and strategic spending.

Highlights of the proposed estimates include:

• Forced growth funding of $1.9 million

which consists of additional policing

resources for Fort Providence, the

establishment of the RCMP "G"

Division Territorial Crime Reduction

Unit, and the implementation of a

full-time Emergency Response Team

for "G" Division;

• other adjustments of $5.1 million,

which includes $3.3 million for the

First Nations and Inuit Policing

Program Framework Agreement,

$985,000 for Technology Service

Centre chargebacks; and, $889,000

for various federal cost shared

agreements;

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 591

• Reductions of $2.9 million, which

includes the closure of the Fort Smith

Correctional Complex Men’s Unit and

a reduction in the Office of the

Children's Lawyer;

• Initiatives funding of $270,000 which

continues funding of the Access to

Information and Protection of Privacy

Shared Services office;

• Transfers of $854,000 for the

Integrated Case Management office to

the Department of EIA;

• Sunsets of $747,000.

These estimates support the priorities of the

20th Assembly and the vision of Budget 2024

by contributing to a strong economic

foundation, working together with partners, and

to keep communities safe and deliver

accessible programs and services to residents.

Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Does the Minister of Justice wish to bring

witnesses into this House?

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Yes, I do.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Does the

committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witness

into the Chamber.

Thank you. Would the Minister please introduce

his witnesses.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: With me I have Charlene

Doolittle, deputy minister of the Department of

Justice, and James Bancroft, director of

corporate services. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you. I

will now open the floor for general comments on

the Department of Justice. Do any Members

have general comments? I'm going to go to the

Member from Yellowknife North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm

hoping this can be a bit of a Q and A because

I'm interested to hear from the Minister how we

can build better on-the-ground outreach

services that integrate or work with law

enforcement and teams of social workers,

health support workers, to ensure that we have

a better way of addressing social issues that

are not necessarily criminal in nature but that

often get, you know, punted to the RCMP out of

lack of having other places to call. And so my

understanding is that the Minister's interested

in this idea but I don't see it in the business plan

so far. But can the Minister explain how we

might start going about putting an approach like

this in place and what his plan might be for it?

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. So that's a

pretty big question. The puck has dropped so I

will try and keep things short. But there

are -- when we talk about crime and crime

reduction, and I always say, you know,

enforcement is just one part of it, and the

department is responsible for enforcement but

also looking at other ways to address those

issues. So one program that has been running

a few years, although, you know, interrupted

with many of the events we have seen as a

territory, is the Community Safety Officer

Program. So that's one where it is not an

enforcement unit. It is community members

who work with individuals to help, I guess, avoid

situations where the police might be involved.

And it could be -- the thing that always sticks in

my mind is just giving people a ride home from

a party. If there's a woman, instead of having

her walk home perhaps intoxicated, they might

give her a ride. So those kind of little things in

the community can go a long way. Of course,

there's other departments who are involved

with things like funding the Street Outreach

Program. We talked just recently about

integrated service delivery in the Department of

EIA and how that can assist individuals stay out

of the criminal justice system. We also provide

funding for men's healing program to help

prevent men from committing acts of intimate

partner violence. So there are a number of

ways. But the question is bigger than the

Department of Justice. It is cross-departmental

and going forward, like I've said before, we've

added RCMP across the territory every year

since I have been Minister. I think it's now time

to look at how can we supplement the services

they offer with some of those more social

services by partnering with other organizations.

There's nothing -- the business plan doesn't

speak to that or the mains at this point, but that

is the path that I'd like to see us go down. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife

North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. In some

other jurisdictions, they have some innovative

models where law enforcement might partner

with health workers or counsellors so that if you

call an emergency line -- say someone calls

9-1-1, if they're having a mental health crisis or

something, currently, you know, the options are

Page 592 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

send ambulance or send RCMP. But in other

jurisdictions, there's models where there's sort

of a third option where you could send, you

know, crisis counsellors or people with more

appropriate training to deal with mental health

crisis. Is this something that the Minister is

willing to look into? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. So I think we

would be the minor partner in that program.

That would likely be something the department

of health would lead if we're talking about

mental health workers responding to crises. So

I'm happy to work with the department of health

examining things like that, and that's sort of the

model that I was speaking of. But we would not

be the lead department on something like that,

depending on what this hypothetical model

would look like. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife

North.

MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll leave

it there for now, but I just wanted to make sure

that this idea stays on the radar. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Any further questions from Members? I'm going

to go to the Member from Range Lake.

MR. TESTART: I have general comments

rather than questions, but the Premier's free to

ask -- or to answer or speak to what I have to

say. But I'm quite pleased with what's being

proposed in the main estimates and also the

business plan. The legislative agenda for this

department is sufficiently robust in both the kind

of machinery of government -- or machinery of

the public service that has to bring forward

things like Miscellaneous Statute Law

Amendment Acts and the Legislation Act and

the unsexy pieces of legislation. Forgive

that -- forgive me if that's unparliamentary but

that's really what it is. But we do have some

very -- an ambitious agenda for improving

public safety and giving law enforcement the

tools it needs to succeed.

I have -- you know, this is -- the issue of crime

prevention and crime reduction is not one -- it's

not solved by more police on its own, but we do

need to have a robust response to organized

crime. And what's been increasingly apparent

is we have a drug crime problem and an

organized crime problem that are intertwined

and taking advantage of our most vulnerable

citizens, particularly in the small communities. If

we do not have a robust law enforcement

response to these predators, we are not going

to be able to keep communities safe.

I have never seen so much violence in my

hometown of Yellowknife as I have this -- these

last few years, since the pandemic. There have

been murders every month this year I think,

including, you know, newly discovered ones

that are -- or suspicious deaths that are most

likely related to drug crime. There are handguns

found throughout the city now, not long guns

but handguns. Crack cocaine is everywhere, in

every community. These are not caused by a

public health addictions problem. These are

caused by gangsters from the south who are,

again, taking advantage of our most vulnerable

citizens. So we need a multifaceted approach.

I think over the years, governments have been

investing in social support and infrastructure.

We've seen Housing First be rolled out in the

Northwest Territories to varying degrees of

success. We've seen the men's healing

program be redeveloped and reoffered. We

have -- the judiciary has been very active in

supporting different ways of dealing with

criminality. And integrated case management

started in the Department of Justice for chronic

recidivists and users of the system. So I think

we have been trying to get a handle on it,

throwing a lot at it, you know, and then it's all

underpinned by intergenerational trauma and

the legacy of cultural genocide that was the

mission of the Canadian government, the

colonial Canadian government that they still

must make amends for. But regardless of that

reality, regardless of the systemic factors that

lead us here and continue to keep people

trapped in poverty, trapped in addictions and

difficult to treat, it does not change the reality

that we have armed thugs in our communities

praying upon these people, and we need to give

police the tools to deal with that. And this

budget does that in a significant way. And I'm

very pleased to see that, that it was not

something we needed to fight for. It was not

something we disagreed with with the Minister,

with the Cabinet, with the Premier. It's

something we can all get behind. And, yeah, we

can do more than just cops, absolutely. I think

that's underway. I think we have resources in

other departments as well, and we have a

commitment from this -- from the Premier, from

this Minister, to integrate those services so it is

not just a one-lens approach to this problem.

But if we neglect the support we need for law

enforcement, we are not going to address, you

know, the people who are making the problem

worse in our communities. And that's what I

wanted to say today. I'll have other commentary

for key activities, but this is a big issue for me.

This is -- you know, I have a relatively quiet

suburban part of Yellowknife that is my riding of

Range Lake, and even out there in a residential

dense area, people are feeling unsafe which I

didn't -- you know, again, growing up here, I

didn't think it would ever feel this way. I thought

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 593

we were removed -- not immune, but certainly

removed from the worst of it, and that's just not

the case anymore. So I'm hoping that with this

budget, we can start to take action and turn the

page on this, bring these predators to justice,

and protect the people who need protecting the

most in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

And thank you to the Premier for bringing this

ambitious budget forward. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you

for your comments. I'm going to go on to the

Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

MR. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr.

Chair, I echo the comments of my friend, MLA

from Range Lake. I'm not saying he stole my

thunder; I think he's added to it. But it's good to

hear that because we hear that a lot in the small

communities, and often times you wonder if the

MLAs outside of the smaller communities

understand what it's doing. Because it is

destroying small communities, not just -- it's not

just a problem, it is destroying small

communities. Drug addiction, the influx of

gangs, the influx of drug dealers, is destroying

it. And I bet to say every MLA here from a small

community will tell you they get weekly, if not

daily, phone calls from people with concerns

and/or complaints or are scared or they're an

elder living in the building that they know there's

issues going on. If you've campaigned like I did,

you've probably seen it with your own two eyes.

People living in a unit and drug dealers actually

in there with them, you know, paying them

sums of money to go to a door and hand out

drugs. It's ridiculous. And we talked about well,

why aren't there that many people at Aurora

College? Well, they're not in Aurora College

because they're doing other things they

shouldn't be doing and it's -- again, it's a

massive, massive problem. More than I think

we even realize, and it's going to destroy small

communities.

So, again, as my friend from Range Lake said,

I applaud the department for putting the extra

funding in. I would say is it even enough? You

know, we have to -- we have to focus or efforts

on this. We have to. And I know it's

interdepartmental. I know there are other things

that we need to do, whether it's treatment

centres, where it's aftercare programs, where

it's housing initiatives. All those things tie into

this. But at the end of the day, it's justice. It's we

need to make sure we make people safe. And,

yeah, and I applaud it too. As I I don't have a

question, but I did want to make that comment

because it's so important. And I hear it

regularly. And I'm glad that MLAs in Yellowknife

hear it regularly as well because it is

devastating for our small communities.

Absolutely devastating.

So yeah, I would support more, Mr. Premier.

So, yeah, I think it's great, a good start.

Let's -- you know, let's get moving on this.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you,

for your comments. The next on my list here, I

got the Member from the Dehcho.

MRS. YAKELEYA: Yeah, thank you. I too want

to say -- reiterate what the last two Members

talked about. This department needs to work

together and protect people. Crime rates in my

region, I could say for a couple of the

communities in my region, is very high. People

are afraid, and lives are being destroyed

because of the drug trade. And, yeah, so what

I have to say, I guess, is give the police the

support that they need to combat these crimes

that are happening in our communities. It's sad

to say that people in my community of Fort

Providence can't even leave their homes unless

there's somebody there to watch their house

because it seems like every night a person's

gone, somebody's breaking in their house. And

people don't have the resources to help the

police, I guess. And so it's causing a lot of

chaos in the community. The crime rate is high.

I went to a court proceeding one time. It was

standing room only. So we need support in all

the departments from health to education need

to work together to help the people somehow

and, like, community wellness to do something

to help the people. Community justice, there's

young people that are getting charged for

first-time offences because there's no

committee in place, stuff like that. Those things

don't need to happen this day and age. So

that's what I wanted to say. So thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you

for your comments. And I'm going to go to the

Member from the Sahtu.

MR. McNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I too

support a hundred percent here on the three

previous speakers, on the emphasis. And I

can't stress enough the need to focus on

today's society. Today's society is plagued with

a lack of work, lack of industry. It's really

designed to plague on the weak ones and the

weak ones are vulnerable and in comes these

opportunists with their drugs. And to me, it's

really shocking. I have never seen my home

community in Fort Good Hope so torn apart by

the influx of drugs. And now we're getting

phone calls, as the Member from Boot Lake

said, as late as 9, 10 o'clock at night. I think if

we all witnessed that, we would understand the

need for capital to address the society today.

To give you an example, another example of

many, we invited the Ministers of Infrastructure

and Finance to the Sahtu communities, and we

Page 594 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

went to Fort Good Hope. The amount of

questions was just unbelievably long because

people out there are waiting for the authorities

to come to their communities to offload their

concerns to the appropriate individuals, to help

with the redesigning and bringing back the

traditional values to our communities, which are

basically lost. There seems to be no industry

there. Just to gauge that, are we making new

initiatives to attract investment by the closure of

the OROGO office when we haven't even really

did a rights issue and sale? We cannot say that

the rights issue and sale has respondents in the

neighbourhood of five, ten oil companies,

because we haven't done that. But yet we're

going to take an inactive approach by shutting

that office down when we haven't even gauged

its potential.

And I really emphasize the need for, and I

encourage every Member of Cabinet to go to

the communities, spend a night there, listen to

the elders, the parents.

The workforce opportunity in the private sector

is so low, responses to national competitions

are left with no responses. Zero. How can we

encourage the outcomes of education when

that workforce or that age group is plagued with

addictions? And yet we throw more money on

what is probably not going to materialize. So I

think we got to learn to go to the root of the

problem and design our business plan to

address the weaknesses of society in our area.

We've got a weak energy sector. I would say

we would all be shocked tomorrow to find out

the number of employees that did not show up.

I see that every day. And as a result of your

employees not showing up, no production is

done. This is why our public buildings are

deteriorating, because of lack of maintenance.

Now is the summertime to winterize and

improve your efficiency of the building,

including maintaining those boilers. But yet on

the other hand, if we don't got employees

showing up, it ain't going to get done.

So those are just some of the examples, but

you got to really experience the examples by

going to these smaller communities and talking

and listening to people. Some of them may not

be encouraged in a public forum but if the

invitation was there to meet one on one, I would

say we would all be shocked on the amount of

requests we're going to get to meet privately to

discuss the troubling drug and alcohol

problems that we're facing. And as a result of

that, today's society is -- I actually feel sorry for

a lot of people that I see, whether it's at Stanton

Hospital or out in the regional health centres.

So being mindful of the resources' need, where

the priority is, if we stay the course, I think we

can see positive rehabilitation outcomes and a

reformed society out there. And I'll have

questions in this department at the appropriate

activity there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you

for your comments. I'm going to go to the

Member from Monfwi.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Thank you.

Yesterday I talked about the drug problem,

drugs and crimes in my region. Not just my

region, but it's in all of the small communities.

And, yes, Mr. Rodgers is right that, you know, it

is destroying our communities. It's destroying

the life of our young people. It's a major issue.

It's a big problem, especially in small

communities because we don't have lots of

resources in small communities but the drugs

are coming in -- like even taxi coming in from

larger regional centre to small communities

when they know the RCMP are off the road

when they're not working. You know, like they

come at certain time to do drop off. That's

another issue too that's -- you know, it's not

healthy.

In my community this past weekend, this was

an incident that happened, but nobody told us.

Like, we have -- I mean, I haven't heard from

the authority or anybody that, you know, what

happened because there was a lot of people.

There was, like, the army. There was the SWAT

team. It's involving drugs. But, like, I mean, it

was a chaos for a while. There was -- it was

busy and then all of a sudden everything died

down. And it happened this past weekend. And

we don't even know, like -- there's lots of rumors

going around but I don't want to repeat any of

those rumors, you know. Like, it's just -- it's not

right for me to do that. But -- so that happened.

And in small communities, you know, like,

for -- I do like the fact that there's a lot of RCMP

because with a lot of RCMP present in my

community, we do feel okay. We do feel a bit

safe. But it just goes to show that for -- based

on per capita for my community, we shouldn't

have that much amount of RCMP presence. So

it just goes to show that we do have a major

issue, you know, in my region, in my

community. So I just wanted -- I want to say it's

not right but it's just that -- it's not fair for

my -- the constituents in my region, you know,

one of the community -- two communities, they

don't have any police services. So they don't

feel safe, you know, because they don't have

no RCMP detachment. They don't have nothing

there. So they are more vulnerable than some

of our people. But with the drug activities, the

vulnerable people, the elders, the little children,

are most affected. And we have lots of children

that are in care already but because of this drug

activities, there's more children in care. It's a

voluntary agreement. But if it wasn't for

grandparents, I think there would be more than

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 595

100 percent of children in care. But it's not

happening. So what we need more is that for

me, I think we need to start with the youth, with

the children. We need to introduce -- we need

to talk to the young people, or we need to have

an awareness or an education program

starting -- or have it part of our education

curriculum, school curriculum starting with JK. I

know they're young, but they know what's going

on too. They know why they're sleeping at

grandma and grandpa's house, you know, like

so they know what's going on. They can feel it.

They can see. And they can hear it. So it does

have a major impact on a lot of community

members.

There's a lot of good people living in small

communities. I cannot say that everybody's

bad, but it's just that it's the addiction. It's the

influx of drugs coming in from outside, and it's

not helping our communities. It's not helping

anybody, but it's destroying the lives of our

young people. It's having impact on them

mentally and emotionally. And just like Danny

said, you know, like, what's our future going to

look like for the workforce? You know, like,

because we are relying on our young people to

take over one day, and that's what the leaders

are always saying, you know. So we need to do

something before it gets out of -- it is out of -- I

don't think it's really out of control yet, but I think

we can do something. We can do more to stop

it so that it doesn't get too far that it's destroying

our future generations. And not only that,

but -- that and the long term, you know, we

know these illegal drugs, they're made

somewhere in people's warehouse. Wherever it

came from, we know the prescription drugs how

it's made, but these illegal drugs, it's not to be

consumed. But a lot of young people are

consuming it. So what kind of impact it's going

to have on health care in the future? So that's a

thing that I'm kind of worried, like. It's going to

have a major impact on health care. And these

are young people that they have so much

potentials. They have a whole life. The whole

life -- you know, I mean, they have so many

years still ahead of them and yet, you

know -- like, I mean, if we don't do anything

now, it's going to be too late for some. But

before it gets to many of our young

people -- because the crack cocaine is the one

that's more readily available in small

communities, and they're cheap -- we know

they're cheaply made, and they're easy and

cheap to buy. Even weeds are also laced. We

know that, you know. And so if you buy off a

dealer, what I heard is a lot of those are laced

with fentanyl and other strong chemicals. So

that's why a lot of our young people are

addicted to it. This is what we heard from

people who are trying to educate our young

people, you know, like to discourage them. So

I think for me what I do like, you know, what I

see here, and I know that it's in the business

plan of how they're going to do it, how -- but I

think more education, more awareness needs

to be done, and because with the justice system

it also needs to be done in jail as well because

the repeat offenders, you know, like, we need

to do something more. But I just -- it's more of a

comment that I think that we should start right

from JK. For me, that's what I -- you know, I

don't know how my colleagues feel. But I know

that it needs to be start -- we need to get to the

young people before it gets out of control and

destroy our communities and destroy the lives

of our young people who are going to take over

in the future, you know, because the Baby

Boomers are -- a lot of them retired. Generation

X is next, and Millennia. So it's the Millennia that

we have to worry about and then the

other -- and then JK, young people in JK so we

need to do -- we need to do more. And I like

what I see in here that I know the

department -- they have a plan in place. So I

just want to say thank you. So it's just more of

a comment. Thank you

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you

for your comments. I'm going to go on to the

Member from Mackenzie Delta.

MR. NERYSOO: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I too

would like to echo the comments of my

colleagues. In my community, my region, we've

been experiencing a lot of drug activity. It's

overtaken the place of the marijuana trade.

There's more people that we don't even know

that are in our communities. They're taking

advantage of the vulnerable people and taking

over their houses. For instance, we have a

paraplegic young guy in our community and

he's staying in a housing unit, and some of

these guys come from Edmonton or down south

and they know this guy already because

everybody knows him from down south, I

guess, and that's where they set up shop. And

there's times that this individual, he's scared to

go to the authorities. So the only place he can

go is his grandmother's house and just try to get

some sleep, and he leaves those guys at his

unit. And there's a lot of people scared to

intervene. The RCMP, the community's losing

confidence in the RCMP because the RCMP

are feeling exhausted because they feel that

they're taking on all this responsibilities. It was

manageable before all these hard drugs came

in, but now it's unmanageable. They don't have

the resources to do it. They're taking on the

roles of family counselling and all these other

roles. Because when an individual is addicted

to these hard drugs, it doesn't affect only that

person. It affects the family. It affects the

community. And it also takes a toll on the

resource people within the community, the

Page 596 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

RCMP, the health centre. Every department in

the government is affected by one person's

use.

When we went on our social development tour

in Aklavik and Inuvik, we had a meeting with the

RCMP and the sergeant there stated that, you

know, the only way that we can combat this

drug -- the drug trade in the NWT is to get these

people that are addicted, get them some help

so the dealers don't have any customers. And

I've always stated that it's just not the individual

that needs to get these counselling services, it

has to be the whole family. Like if you send one

person -- if you send the individual out, then he

goes out for extended period of time and he

comes back and his family wouldn't know how

to deal with him. So if we're going to take this

approach of trying to heal our people, we have

to look at healing the whole family right down to

the children.

The RCMP in Inuvik stated that if they had a

drug task force that dealt with drugs only, but

it's a big trade. It's all over. And I don't know if

just one drug task force can take on this

responsibility. It would be a 24/7 job there. But

he said if that force was initiated, then maybe

that the other RCMPs can concentrate on

other -- their other responsibilities of protecting

the communities.

Just before Christmas in my hometown of Fort

McPherson, we had five deaths in less than two

weeks. I know there was -- and I believe four of

them was drug related, and one was unknown.

It wasn't revealed. But I remember sitting with

the chief at the time and the next thing she got

a phone call, so she had to go out on the porch

to take it. She called me and said we have to

go -- we have to go inform another person and

while we're just dealing with one, the

community was gathered at the community hall

because we just lost a young person. Then we

had to go to another family and tell them that,

you know, they found their son dead,

overdosed. So that got pretty hard on the

leaders. It affects everybody. It affects the

family. It affects the individual, the community.

And the support is there, but it does have an

impact. And I like what's going on within this

budget but I look at the gun and gang strategy,

it's no longer in existence. I don't know what we

can do as a government to combat this awful

disease that everybody is enduring.

We have really intelligent young people

within -- I have to speak for my community

alone. I know there's a lot of young educated

individuals within the community. This drug

does not discriminate against anybody. These

young individuals, they're really educated. They

were going to colleges and some of them come

back, and they're -- they have nothing. They

have to give their children to their parents

because they're hooked on this drug. And

today's -- I know some of them are related,

directly related to me. My sister's kids. Not all of

them, but I don't even know where some of

them are. They could be in the community at

one day, then the next day they're gone. But I

hope we can look at some -- find some

alternative measures where we can meet these

goals of combatting drug use, gangs, and just

take the pressure off the RCMP and other

resource people. And I believe this government

can do it. That's all I have to say. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Mahsi. Is

there any -- mahsi for your comments. Is there

any further comments? I'm going to go to YK

Centre, Member from YK Centre, sorry about

that.

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For

sake of time and energy, of course I won't run

through all the comments highlighted earlier

today by a few of the previous speakers here.

But the truth be told is, you know, we talk about

these challenges at Justice, and I can tell you

being the Member for the downtown riding, it is

stressful for many people. And so whether you

live on the edge on one side of it or closer to the

Ruth Inch Pool or you live on the other side

towards the Salvation Army area, I mean, it just

seems to be one of the most interesting catchall

areas from one end to the other. And by the

way, those aren't the exact descriptions of the

riding. But I mean, the point being is it really

captures the downtown. And many people, you

know, whether they live in Northern Heights or

they live in houses downtown from where the

future proposed Yellowknife Sobering Centre

is, or will be, I mean, people are stressed, and

they're worried about response times, they're

worried about fulfillment of justice mandates,

people following through. I mean, the other day

I was raising the issues of scooters on roads

and sidewalks and, I mean, it makes me

frustrated and chuckle when I see enforcement

drive by and bicycles and whatnot. We don't

even enforce laws now, such as those things

are legal. And as a person who's had two young

people -- now they're both taller than me but,

you know, when they were both short legs and

drove bicycles with small tires, I mean, as a

parent, we want them on sidewalks. But the

point I'm making is we don't even enforce all our

laws and, you know, which often makes me

wonder why we even keep them on the books

because we're waiting for that one

circumstance where we want to hit them with

everything.

Mr. Chairman, you know, we see the

destruction of neighbourhoods because of

drugs and alcohol and drug dealers and people

taking advantage of elders and seniors and the

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 597

outright frustration of the neighbours who are

held hostage. You know, somebody buys, you

know -- property values, you know, it's not

subjective but it's subjective in the context of

where you live. You live in one neighbourhood,

it's -- you know, that house is worth so much

and you live in another neighbourhood, and

next door you have problems, it tanks. And you

know, we have people who have made life

investments into their community, and, you

know, it's very difficult to get a response time

when, you know, you're complaining about this

problem or that problem, and my goodness, I

would love to see that SCAN app come into

force. I would love to see stronger rules on how

we deal with bail reforms highlighted by the

Premier. We've heard of -- I heard it many times

about these challenges and I mean, like I say, I

see good people in good neighbourhoods

having to listen to problems and deal with

problems, and their hands are tied. I mean, I

don't know what the right answer is, but I can

certainly say that one of them has to do with

stronger enforcement measures such as, in

other words, following through on showing up

and charging them who are causing problem. I

do not believe for a moment that more charges

solves social problems, and I'm not connecting

the two, although, unfortunately, the two bleed

into each other every day, which is, you know,

drugs, you know, lead to one problem, alcohol

leads to another, you know, buyers are there,

and if people weren't buying, they wouldn't be

selling. So when you live in a neighbourhood

that has those problems -- and no

neighbourhood downtown is exempt from this.

You can say you live on one street, well we

don't have problems. No, they've got problems

too. So I'm very supportive of any measures

that can help support the rule of law. At the

same token is I'm very supportive of ways of

expanding -- although I should stress I know

this isn't the department but, that said,

expanding treatment options and providing

avenues for people to find their souls again.

And I often refer to them as lost souls that need

support in trouble and guidance to find their way

home.

The last few years, I had the pleasure of being

involved in a restorative justice program. I think

that that is a bang up opportunity where -- you

know, where I'd like to personally see that used

more, although I'm not involved in the program

anymore but I mean, I can certainly see many

people who've made some challenges and

found themselves in circumstances and, you

know, maybe on a good day, they wouldn't

have been there, but on a bad day that's where

they found themselves. And I can say that there

are many other things about giving people

opportunity and finding their way with support

of others. So Mr. Chairman, I don't want to

spend too much time. I do want to stress,

though, that the core of downtown is frustrated,

and what it needs specifically is a larger

presence. And the larger presence doesn't

necessarily mean more people arrested but

people to be reminded that, you know, they

have to be on some reasonable behaviour.

Because people live there. They have children

there. Families want to do things. And when

people leave apartment buildings or condos

and feel threatened or unsafe, I mean,

it's -- that's not a win for anyone, really. And

ultimately -- so I was just talking to my

colleague from Range Lake. I mean, you know

there was a time where I was trying to

press -- and I would certainly like to see this. I

mean, I think this is a justice issue, not

necessarily a health issue, but, you know, there

was a time I was trying to press that we need to

put social workers on the street downtown

Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night talking to

people, trying to give them some guidance and

maybe asking, you know, somebody who's, you

know, 16 years old who's saying it's 2 o'clock in

the morning, what are you doing out, you know,

you're up to no good, or people trying to take

some level of responsibility. And it's a

community problem. I'm not going to say it's just

one person. Yellowknife is a big community.

And I mean, I grew up in a small one, and I

know what it's like being a young person and I'll

say full of adventure, and though I can't talk

about a few stories due to statute of limitations,

but they're going to be funny one day.

But in all seriousness, Mr. Chairman, a greater

presence is really -- if I had an ask specifically

at this particular time, a greater presence, that

we find a way to put, for example, the RCMP in

the community more out of cars, talking to

people, you know, whether it's telling a person

in front of the Reddi Mart downtown, you know,

here's an ice cream, now walk home. You

know, it's 11 o'clock, you should be home. You

know, somebody who's having trouble, you

know, can we call someone and send you

home, you know, type of thing. And like I say, a

bigger physical presence would go a long way.

And by no means have I -- will advocate for

harsher punishment because I think some of

these troubled souls in general have their own

challenges and our job is to help guide them

back to some stability. But to the hard crime

folks, we have to find a way because it rots the

community. And I'm hopeful, like I said, with the

SCAN app coming down the pipe and maybe a

larger presence, we can have a more positive

influence on our community, which is what

many of us need. And I can assure you a guy

who knocked down -- knocked on doors for

many years despite the sabbatical, I can tell you

it has gotten worse, and our job is to make

things better. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Page 598 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely):

Thanks to the Member from Yellowknife

Centre. And we'll pass the floor over to the

Member of Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, Mr. Edjericon.

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It

was pretty hard sitting up there, sitting back and

listening to this issue, the issue of drug

addictions that impacts our communities. When

I heard my colleagues speak about it, especially

George, it really hits home. I know in our small

communities, we feel this every day. And even

as the MLA and even as a former chief, I've

been to many funerals. And when you go to

funerals, it's really tough on everybody,

especially on the family. And, you know, I don't

want to get into the specific details about what

happened but I could tell you this: It's all related

to the drugs that's in our communities. And I just

want to echo my comments I mentioned this

afternoon when I did my Member's statement

that, you know, I think it's really time now that I

think maybe your department could really take

a look at what's been said here tonight. And

what we're saying here tonight has also been

echoed to you by the Circle of Aboriginal

Leaders as well and -- because I talked to them

as well. And I think that, you know, this issue,

even though that the RCMP may have a

different view about the assessments needed

for this dog K-9 units that is really needed. Yes,

we do have it here in Yellowknife but it's getting

so bad now that it's -- I think we're getting really

tired of going to the funerals now. And I agree

with my colleagues that, you know, it's hitting

home. And at what point -- I mean, every day I

drop off my grandson at school, and he's in

grade 11 and he's 16 years old, and I often

remind him every day, you know, to make the

right choices. And so far, you know, we've been

blessed. But the thing is that my colleague over

there says that drugs don't discriminate, and it's

true. It doesn't -- I see in my community, it

doesn't matter who you are. It impacts

everybody. So I just want to just keep thinking

about -- I'm going to be putting forward a motion

on the K-9-unit that I would like to see in Hay

River. And if the Minister and your department

could really take a look at that. And I know when

you go to Ottawa, you could probably talk to the

RCMP and see what we could do to really lobby

to get a new K-9 unit stationed in Hay River. It's

a start, but right now, as it is, it's a crisis now

that's here in our communities. And like I said, I

could count how many funerals I have just on

that issue alone, and there's too many.

And so anyways, I'm just -- I'm glad that you're

hearing from my colleagues in the small

communities, and it's impacting right across the

North, and especially here in Yellowknife. All

you got to do is just drive down the streets. And

every day, we say our prayers and we give our

blessings. And I just hope that you as the

Minister, I hope you're listening to what we're

saying and that, you know, the issue of this

K-9-unit, I think it's really needed. How we get

there is -- we'll have to figure that one out. I'm

hoping that you guys -- your department could

take a good look at that and see what we could

do, and it's obviously going to have the support

of the House here on that issue. So anyways,

Mr. Chairperson, that's just my comments.

Mahsi.

DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely):

Thank you to the Member of Tu

Nedhe-Wiilideh. Do we have -- do any

Members have general comments? Seeing

none, does committee agree to proceed to the

detail contained in the tabled document?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely):

Thank you. Get the main man here.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Committee, we will defer the departmental

summary and review of the estimates by activity

summary beginning with community justice

starting on page 302 with information items on

page 304 and 305. Are there any questions?

There's a question there from Member from

Great Slave -- sorry, Member from Frame Lake.

MR. MORSE: Just getting the clock going

there. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a very, very

quick comment, and I actually don't even need

a response to this. I just wanted to note that I

was very happy to see -- I'll wait a second here.

Sorry, Mr. Chair. Actually, I have a question.

Noting that the reduction to community justice

committees and projects, can the Minister

speak to that a little bit?

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. I'd like to

hand it to Mr. Bancroft.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): To the

director.

MR. JAMES BANCROFT: Thank you, Mr.

Chair. And thank you, Premier. The reduction

there of $238,000 for grants and contributions

is related to the Indigenous justice program. It

was the second year of the program. The first

year had a higher level of funding to get the

program started. It's just a mid agreement

reduction. The funding is continuing at a level

of $315,000 compared to its original first year

level of $504,000. Thank you.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 599

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Frame

Lake.

MR. MORSE: Okay, thank you. And this is, just

to be clear, not a reduction in service, it's just

the program needed a bit of extra money to bet

launched?

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. That's

correct. Often there's work that needs to be

done to get a program going and so the

agreements with the federal government

accounted for that, and then the ongoing

funding is more reflective of the ongoing needs.

Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Frame

Lake.

MR. MORSE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, I did

want to just note that I was pleased to see an

increase between the main estimates and

revised estimates for the men's healing

program noted and that that increase has been

carried over. So I don't really have a question

about that. I just wanted to state that I'm happy

to see that. I do think that's an important

program and clearly tied to some of the goals of

this Assembly. And so that's all my comments

on this page. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Any further questions? Yes, I have the Member

from Range Lake.

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is this

where we would find the funding for the

community safety officer program in Fort Liard?

Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Yes, I believe so.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'll go back to the Member from Range Lake.

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So

what's the status of that? Because I know that,

like, when coming into this Assembly as well, I

was kind of unclear if there was a pause

because of COVID or because of evac or all the

other unmitigated disasters that had befallen

the 19th Assembly. So where are we at with the

community safety officer pilot? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And there were -- it took time to ramp up the

program. There was a requirement to find

people, to train people, and that's not always a

quick task. And so it didn't move as quickly as

we would have hoped. Maybe the deputy

minister has more information on that. I can

hand it to her, maybe not, but we'll try. Thank

you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the deputy minister.

MS. CHARLENE DOOLITTLE: Thank you, Mr.

Chair. Yes, we had a pilot program that we

started with Fort Liard. We put out an

expression of interest, and they were the

successful community for a pilot project. It's

been extended to March 31st, 2026, due to the

delay the Premier was speaking about. We do

have a program evaluation that will occur at the

end of the term. Extending it gives us more time

to collect more data due to that start that often

takes time in pilot projects.

We have also received some funding from

Public Safety Canada under the FNIPP

program which gives us a better cost share

ratio. So they have provided us with some

funding as well for this program, which is good

news. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to the Member from Range

Lake.

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The

money from Public Safety Canada, is that

funding that could be expanded, or are they just

funding the pilot, or is this a larger -- or is this a

broader initiative that they are providing

financing for around community safety officer

programs? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. That funding

is for the extension of the program. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Range

Lake.

MR. TESTART: Thank you. So what's the total

expenditure of the program? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. The budget

is $303,000 per year. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Member to Range Lake.

Page 600 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

MR. TESTART: And how many officers does

that fund -- or positions, I guess, in the

community? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. There are

two community safety officers. Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

The Member from Range Lake.

MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The

program evaluation, what does that entail? Are

they engaging -- will it engage with members of

the community as well to get feedback from

them in addition to -- I'll just leave it open ended.

Like, what will it evaluate? How will

that -- what's the methodology around the

evaluation? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. So they will

be looking at the community partnerships and

the activities that were undertaken, the number

of calls for support, as well as the impact on the

RCMP calls for support, and prisoner counts.

So I don't have the exact details. I don't have

the evaluation framework here, but I would

imagine that when you look at things like

community partnerships and activities, there's

interviews with other groups in the community

and things like that. But once that evaluation

framework is finalized, we can share that.

Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Range

Lake.

MR. TESTART: Thank you. Thank you to the

Premier. This is a really great program, I just

wanted to say, and I think it should be -- I mean,

hopefully, the evaluation comes back that it's

cost effective and is reducing calls and all the

things we want it to do. I know that several

years ago now the City of Yellowknife had

proposed a similar program. I think it was called

the community safety officer program to the

government of the day. And there was a

concern around funding. I think the

conversation was, if we can find the money,

then we'll support it.

Is there -- could this -- if Yellowknife or a larger

centre was interested in a program like this,

would there be support from the department

now? Because I appreciate that this is a pilot,

but I think this is a -- there's a need for this in

just about every community. And it would be

interesting to see how it would develop in a

larger centre, especially given my colleague

from Yellowknife Centre spoke about, like, the

need for community policing and getting out of

the car and on the street and talking to people,

and CSOs seem like a good fit for that model.

So is there the potential that this could work in

Yellowknife or Hay River or a larger centre?

Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go over to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. I believe

there's potential that it could work in a lot of

places, but it's the funding issue that is, I would

say, the holdup right now. This is federally

funded. And when I last met with the Minister of

public safety -- or I guess the previous

time -- this was discussed, and we did talk

about the success of this program

understanding there isn't an evaluation yet. And

there was interest, and it does appear that the

federal government is interested in this. And so

we hope that this program, the evaluation will

show that it is successful, and then we can

move into other communities.

With the Department of Justice, most of the

money is allocated to the courts and to the

RCMP and to corrections and so anything

additional we do, it comes through federal

funding for the most part. So that's what it's

contingent upon. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Range

Lake.

MR. TESTART: Thank you. And, yeah, I

assume that was the answer but if you need

support, please bring it to the standing

committee. I'm sure we'll write you a letter.

Switching gears, the Protection against Family

Violence Act is scheduled to be updated. Could

the Minister speak to what changes are being

contemplated by the department? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you. I

will to go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. If you could

just give me one moment while I turn to that

page, thanks.

Thank you. So I don't have a lot of detail on that,

but one of the issues that has been identified is

who is included in that definition under the Act.

And so that's one area that we're looking at.

And the other, we're also looking at other

amendments. But I can get back to the

Members with more information on that specific

legislative initiative. Thank you.

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 601

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Range

Lake.

MR. TESTART: Thank you. And I appreciate

that we will -- I mean, it's legislation, it's going

to be proposed, we will see it. I just was curious

about what is being contemplated because it's

not clear in the list of legislative proposals that

are currently out.

Well, yeah no, I think I'm good. Thank you. This

has been -- again, I think this is -- this is good

detail in here. There's good programming and

support for the men's healing program. I'm glad

to see the funding increased and continued to

maintain that level. It was something that we

looked at very closely in the 18th Assembly,

and I'm glad to see it continue here. So thank

you, Mr. Chair. Nothing further.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from the Sahtu.

MR. McNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. My

question is on the descriptions of cost shared

agreements. To a large degree, we're

dependent on our federal counterpart to assist

with resources and if there's such a high

change in our society for increased services

and in justice, rehabilitation, counselling, those

types of related services, is it the department's

wishes or are they going to seek further

agreements to cover some of the shortfalls that

we're experiencing in the area of justice and

rehabilitation? Are we going back to the federal

government for more money? Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'll go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We are always going to the federal government.

The Department of Justice hustles to find

agreements, to find pots of money that they can

access. And so I wouldn't say we're going back

to them, but there is a constant dialogue and

there's always -- not always new agreements

but there are a number of agreements. And we

do give our two cents to the feds about what we

would like to see and what direction we would

like to see their agreements go in if it's not one

that works for the territory. And as always,

I -- when I speak to the federal Ministers, I say

we need ensure that no matter what we're

doing, it needs to -- the feds need to consider

the Northwest Territories and our unique

context relative to the southern provinces when

they're designing programs and allocating

funding for programs as well because the per

capita allocations don't work for us. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to the Member from the

Sahtu.

MR. McNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm

satisfied with that reply. Mahsi.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Member from Monfwi.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Here, gun

and gang strategies, okay, 2022-2023, there's

nothing allocated for this fiscal year. It's not in

the budget. So I just want to ask the Minister

why it's not -- because we know -- we have a lot

of issues in small communities, and then I'm

sure there's a lot of community, you know,

Indigenous government and other

organizations, they use this money for -- you

know, to help and work with the young people.

So it's more of awareness and education

program, part of healing. So I just wanted to

know why it's not part of this budget this fiscal

year.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go to the Minister.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. Again, this is

another federal program and so we had an

agreement with the federal government to

receive funding through the Guns and Gang

Strategy. The federal government discontinued

that strategy but we have recently confirmed

that that money is being reprofiled to the same

end, but in a different program and so we are

awaiting details on that. But we hope to be

getting into discussions and signing it as soon

as possible. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

I'm going to go back to the Member from

Monfwi.

MRS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Yeah,

that's good. Thank you. That's what I wanted to

hear. And then what I see here, it's good. You

know, there's more money allocated to some of

the programs, like men's healing, which is

greatly needed, and it's helping a lot of

community members in small communities. So

I know it's being used well. Even the Victim

Assistance Program, it's really helping a lot of

communities because I know that we see things

happening because of these programs. So I'm

glad there is money, you know, there is

increase in that budget for this fiscal year. So

that's all. It's more of a comment. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

Any other Members want to make a comment?

General comments? Okay, no further

questions.

Page 602 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024

Please turn to page 303, Justice, community

justice, operations expenditure summary,

2024-2025 Main Estimates, $6,659,000. Does

the committee agree? Thank you.

I'll read this out again.

Justice committee, justice operations

expenditure summary, 2024-2025, Main

Estimates, $6,759,000. Does the committee

agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON ((Mr. Edjericon)): Thank you.

The Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

MR. RODGERS: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr.

Chair, please rise and report progress.

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Edjericon): Thank you.

There's a motion on the floor to report progress.

The motion is in order and non-debatable. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Motion

carried.

---Carried

I will now rise and report progress.

Report of Committee of the Whole

MR. SPEAKER: Member from Tu Nedhe-

Wiilideh.

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been

considering Tabled Document 93-20(1) and

would like to report progress with a one. And

Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the

Committee of the Whole to be concurred with.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Tu

Nedhe-Wiilideh. Do I have a seconder?

Member from Mackenzie Delta. All those in

favour? Opposed? Abstentions? Unanimous.

---Carried

Reports of Committee of the Whole. Third

reading of bills. Orders of the day, Mr. Clerk.

Orders of the Day

CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Glen Rutland):

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Orders of the day for

Thursday, May 30th, 2024, at 1:30 p.m.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’ Statements

3. Members’ Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Replies to the Budget Address, Day 5

of 7

7. Acknowledgements

8. Oral Questions

9. Written Questions

10. Returns to Written Questions

11. Replies to the Commissioner’s

Address

12. Petitions

13. Reports of Committees on the Review

of Bills

14. Reports of Standing and Special

Committees

15. Tabling of Documents

16. Notices of Motion

17. Motions

- Motion 27-20(1): Reappointment

of Human Rights Commission

Members

18. Notices of Motion for First Reading of

Bills

19. First Reading of Bills

20. Second Reading of Bills

21. Consideration in Committee of the

Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Minister’s Statement 4-20(1): 2023

Wildfire Season Review and

Planning for the 2024 Season

- Minister’s Statement 5-20(1):

Emergency Management

Preparation

- Minister’s Statement 17-20(1):

Reaching Average $10 a Day Child

Care in the NWT

- Minister’s Statement 24-20(1):

Health Human Resources

Recruitment and Retention

- Tabled Document 93-20(1): 2024-

2025 Main Estimates

22. Report of the Committee of the Whole

23. Third Reading of Bills

24. Orders of the Day

May 29, 2024 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 603

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, Mr.

Clerk. This House stands adjourned until

Thursday, May 30th, 2024, at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 7:59 p.m.

Page 604 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD May 29, 2024